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boomer_106

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First, the issue at hand from my other post titled Flaky Azbox.   
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Originally Posted by boomer_106
I tried a hard reboot on my Azbox Elite. The first time youtube came up. I have never used that and I don't have the Az hooked to the internet.  Another hard reboot (switching the back switch off) it came up to tv with a black screen. Tried again, same result. Tried again and it seems to be working fine now. 

This is happening a lot now. It happened again last night. (Feb 28, 2017)   Sometimes, when it appears to boot up fine, it can't find any signals. I tune my Pansat 9200 (I don't have the S2 tuner) to the same thing and if it's DVBS, I can see that my signal is fine. Azbox shows nothing. I have to reboot several times now to get it working right. 








Ok, I took the cover off of my Azbox Elite. Since it powers up just fine, I didn't expect to find any visual evidence of failures and indeed, I don't see any.  Let me state that Hardware acceleration is NOT turned on.  Firmware is 0.9.5308

  This leads me to thinking. Ok, what do I want to do? Recap the whole thing? I'm wondering is it a tuner problem? Is the only way to find out by buying a $60 replacement tuner? 

Any thoughts are welcome


Edit:  After reconnecting the Azbox, I can't get a signal at all. I eliminated the possibility that my Sat IN cable was not properly connected by attaching the loop out from the Az to the loop in of the Pansat 9200 and the Pansat sees the signal just fine.   I'm really thinking this is all a tuner issue. 

If it weren't for the fact that this box does 4:2:2, I wouldn't put any money into it. Since it does, I'd really like to fix this.  What would you guys do? Buy a new tuner? Try to mess with the old tuner to see if I can find a faulty component?



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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
majortom

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Reply with quote  #2 
hey boomer,
Hockeynut mentioned he has your same issue the other day.. he said his was taking a long time to Lock known good signals.
Replacing the tuner didn't help him...
My response to him in a PM went something like this...

Sometimes when Caps fail or are on the verge of failing, they won't show any visible signs, but may very well be leaky. Having an ESR Meter / Capacitor checker in the shop would be handy, so ya can quickly test them without removing 'em. Within a certain range of capacitance at least. It puts out a ~ 100KHz Tone, and measures the AC Voltage dropped across it...thus it can calculate the Effective Series Resistance, or ESR using Ohms Law. Theoretically a perfect 'Ideal' Capacitor has zero resistance, which of course is impossible in the real world. As they age, that gets out of spec, and things get flakey...ie they start to have a high ESR, and may have lower than normal capacitance. This may tend to drag down various DC Voltages, etc. wreaking havoc and unpredictable behavior. IMO, all electrolytic capacitors will fail sooner or later. Some sooner than later. Hopefully the rest when the device has outlived it's usefulness.

In my previous life, we used to use these once in a while in the shop.
http://www.huntron.com/products/trackers.htm
They were pretty good at quickly identifying faulty components, once ya got used to it.
Where I worked, we had it around for the scenario when ya didn't want to power something up to troubleshoot, for fear of destroying something else.
But the $$ kinda puts it out of range for us at home...

I would look around for an inexpensive Capacitance Checker / ESR Meter that can measure
in circuit. You can buy one for about the cost of a decent Digital Multimeter.
If ya don't find any bad ones that way, at least you will know to be looking elsewhere.
And all wouldn't be lost, as it would still be useful for all the other electronics floating
around the house.

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habs

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Reply with quote  #3 
Probably alot cheaper to just replace those caps unless you think you'll have a future need for an ESR meter. It does come in handy if you do any kind of electronics work.
WT1964

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I used to have an RCA WO33B Scope in the shop that had a curve tracer option and after getting used to it I used it more than the transistor tester I had at the time ( Super Cricket)  Dang thing took a lightning hit and fried just about everything in the chassis.

Now it's semiconductor analyzers and ESR meters..

Some time the old days in the previous life make today look awful [biggrin]

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boomer_106

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks for the replies guys.  The problem with just replacing caps is there are a million of them. If it's just the power supply caps, that wouldn't be so bad. It's powering up just fine so I'm not sure if that is where I should be looking.

I wish there were test points I could try with a Multimeter.  I have to wonder if I can trust readings from a cheap ESR meter?  My Fluke 179 will test caps out of circuit but, about the time you get them out, you might as well install new ones.  

I'm debating whether a complete data reset might be worth a shot. I have my .dat files backed up so it "shouldn't"  be a total disaster. Famous words there though. 

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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
EmilNJ

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Reply with quote  #6 
A full data reset should be done if you haven't already done so.  I would wipe the application area and reinstall fresh firmware.  The older AZBOX's are known for getting corrupt data especially with channel lists. There are countless instructions in this forum about how to re-flash the AZBOX and import your satellite/channel list correctly.

You can back up your satellite/channel list, but I would just scan in new channels first for a while and see if your receiver is working properly before adding any old data that might be corrupt.

Emil

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boomer_106

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilNJ
A full data reset should be done if you haven't already done so.  I would wipe the application area and reinstall fresh firmware.  The older AZBOX's are known for getting corrupt data especially with channel lists. There are countless instructions in this forum about how to re-flash the AZBOX and import your satellite/channel list correctly.

You can back up your satellite/channel list, but I would just scan in new channels first for a while and see if your receiver is working properly before adding any old data that might be corrupt.

Emil


Thanks for the reply Emil. I don't have many channels scanned in so that's not a big deal. It's just that North American sat list that I can't live without. I can however see if it's working or not with the factory stuff. I may as well give it a shot. This thing has become unusable now.

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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #8 
Hi Boomer,

Emil's suggestion is a good one.  You should most certainly try that first.  The receiver will reboot into PAL and you will need to navigate the menu blindly to reset back into NTSC.

1) Reboot the receiver by the switch on the back of the unit. Wait until it powers up and the display is scrolling
2) Down Arrow 6 Times 
3) Hit the OK button 
4) Right Arrow 1 Time 
5) Down Arrow 1 Time 
6) Right Arrow 1 Time You will now have changed the setting in the Menu from PAL, back to NTSC.
7) The receiver will ask you if you want to save your change and say YES.

Depending on the software version you have loaded, it may already have a N. American List.  If not, then send me an e-mail and I will send you a file that is very easy to load back in.

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boomer_106

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCaylor
Hi Boomer,

Emil's suggestion is a good one.  You should most certainly try that first.  The receiver will reboot into PAL and you will need to navigate the menu blindly to reset back into NTSC.

1) Reboot the receiver by the switch on the back of the unit. Wait until it powers up and the display is scrolling
2) Down Arrow 6 Times 
3) Hit the OK button 
4) Right Arrow 1 Time 
5) Down Arrow 1 Time 
6) Right Arrow 1 Time You will now have changed the setting in the Menu from PAL, back to NTSC.
7) The receiver will ask you if you want to save your change and say YES.

Depending on the software version you have loaded, it may already have a N. American List.  If not, then send me an e-mail and I will send you a file that is very easy to load back in.


Thank goodness you came along with this Rick. I was sitting there looking at the scrolling screen thinking.... I remember from ages ago that this is PAL.  The problem is, I had no idea how to get out of it. I was about to start googling. 

When I try reloading the software, I never get the option to format application area. It always comes back up as Firmware upgrade... internet. I change it to USB and I then get to see the only file I have on the stick and I can upgrade. I just can't get the format option. I do remember from a long time ago that I used that option so it did work at one time. 

That aside, I upgraded to firmware 0.9.5309  All of the European sats are back. (i expected that)   When I go to the Antenna setup menu and pick a satellite. I then go down 1 to LNB Frequency and as soon as I change that.. Boom, the screen goes blank. I have to reboot again to do anything. It was doing this a lot before I changed firmware. It would just go blank without having to change LNB Frequency or anything. 

I don't know if this is further evidence of tuner failure or what. I'm wishing I had two of these units right now because I would swap tuner modules and find out. 

Any ideas what I can try now?

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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
wejones

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Reply with quote  #10 
Sounds like you didn't reboot via flipping the switch in the back, but instead did it from an already booted Azbox.  Or if you did reboot via switch, then it probably didn't recognize the file, ie not named patch.bin.  Or if you named it patch.bin, perhaps your computer didn't show extensions, so you need to make a copy of that file, and name it patch.

boomer_106

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wejones
Sounds like you didn't reboot via flipping the switch in the back, but instead did it from an already booted Azbox.  Or if you did reboot via switch, then it probably didn't recognize the file, ie not named patch.bin.  Or if you named it patch.bin, perhaps your computer didn't show extensions, so you need to make a copy of that file, and name it patch.



Yep, you were right wejones. The file name had the version number included. I renamed to patch.bin. I am now able to format the application area. I did so. I then reinstalled the firmware. Changed from PAL to NTSC. I then tried to bring up a KU satellite in the antenna setup menu and as soon as I did, Boom, screen went out. I've rebooted and the screen is blank without even getting a menu. This thing has some issues

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BillinIndy

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Reply with quote  #12 
I don't think this will make a difference but power down remove any lnb connections at the receiver then boot up and see if you can navigate the same menus. If we do this we are removing any potential loading issues that might be causing power problems for the unit.
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boomer_106

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillinIndy
I don't think this will make a difference but power down remove any lnb connections at the receiver then boot up and see if you can navigate the same menus. If we do this we are removing any potential loading issues that might be causing power problems for the unit.


It made a difference Bill. After getting to those points, I went ahead and plugged in the sat cable.  I've been able to tune channels in using a component connection. It seemed to go haywire when I plugged in HDMI unless it was just a coincidence. Having said that, the channel plays for a bit and then goes out. 

On some of my reboots, under the TV channel option I don't get DVBS. I only get IP channel and the Always start in tv mode option. Not sure if that's important information or not. 



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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
rempfer

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Reply with quote  #14 
Are you using a known good external power supply?
boomer_106

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rempfer
Are you using a known good external power supply?


The Az Elite has a built in power supply

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