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Skywanderer

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Reply with quote  #1 
My S10 is having its problems.

The receiver would not shut off by using the remote.  Had to use the rocker switch. 

I downloaded a bootloader program (PVR800HD) and tried using it.

After several tries with the bootloader, the S10 revived itself.  The receiver was disconnected from the null cable, and unplugged from the wall, and put back where it belonged .  I plugged the S10 back in and attempted to power it on.  Nothing. 

Unplugged the S10, took back to the computer.  Made several attempts again with the bootloader program before the S10 would come back to life.  on > boot > startup > noch.  Normal, now I thought.

I checked the S10 before I unplugged it.  Turned it off.  Turned back on.  Powered back up again okay with on > boot > startup > noch.

I let the receiver sit a few minutes in the ON position thinking it might train itself with the new information.

Unplugged the null cable, turned off the receiver, unplugged from the wall socket.  The S10 again was put back where it belonged in the other room.  Plugged in and attempted to turn on.  Nothing.  No power.

I had checked continuity of the power supply, the little fuse, the cord, the orange capitator and all showed as working. 

What could be the problem? 

I have had the S10 for about 2 1/2 years.  It has been a good receiver until now.

Any suggestions will be helpful.

Thanks!


majortom

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hi,
take a look at this thread and the linked pictures within.
http://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/post/openbox-s9-power-supply-repair-5974417?pid=1274667247#post1274667247

Not saying that's gonna be your problem, but it's worth ruling out a power supply problem.
From the notes in there, it seems the S9 power supply has +24V, +12V and +5V DC outputs.
That all head over to the mother board via that white ribbon cable. Would expect the same on the S10.

Put a DMM on them DC rails with the Power Supply Ribbon Cable plugged in to the MB and with it removed. If they are stable and within reason close to the nominal values, in both cases (Loaded and Unloaded) I would say that rules out your power supply module.
If they differ significantly (ie too low) that could be a problem.

While your in there look for the classic sign of bulging capacitors (an example in the PICs). The S10 Power Supply module may not look the same as the S9, but it's similar enough that the output voltages should be the same.

Nothing to lose checking it out. Just be careful not to get near the AC Line voltage with the power plugged in.
I haven't had a problem with my S9 since I fixed it.







__________________
Perfect 10 7.5' mesh Chapparal C/Ku Co-Rotor feed, Norsat 8115 CBAND, Norsat 4106A Ku Thomson Saginaw Actuator, Vbox positioner,
Home Brew Polarotor683 Servo circuit. Openbox S9, Prof7500, v4l-updatelee linux drivers installed.
ricardo's geo-orbit archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20071202191450/http://www.geo-orbit.org:80/sizepgs/tuningp2.html
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have 3 s10s and have done just about everything to them, good and bad. 

1. When you take the s10 back to its normal place:
     a. have you tried a lamp or something else in that outlet to confirm voltage in the outlet?
     b. if there is voltage there in the outlet...try the s10 without coax attached does it power on?
      c. if it doesn't then it is like majortom said...most likely the power board.
      d. if it does power up .... then it is probably the thermositor. Bridge it and see if it works then with coax attached.

 2. Check the ribbon cable that connects the front panel to the board, and the ribbon cable from the power supply to the main board..they should be side by side at the front of the main board. Sometimes these may be loose.

3. look for corrosion on the board. Usually yellow between solder parts. make sure power is off and try to lightly scrape it off and wipe or blow off.

4. disconnect anything that may be connected and unused....cam card, 12v power, usb, serial port. See how it acts and if it boots.

My guess is that it is the power supply.....or the thermosistor. two culprits that have threads on them. Determining if it will boot without coax is important.

Get back to us, and good luck...s10 is a great and sturdy box...haven't been able to destroy mine. [smile]

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3 Edison OS mini's, 3 Openbox S10s, 2 Openbox S9's, NFusion HD, 2 Prof 7500's, Genpix Skywalker 1, 2 Optibox Anacondas, Azbox me, Azbox minime, 2 Jynxboxes, ismart m100, izzibox, TBS 6982, Vigica C60s, Optibox Raptor, azbox Bravissimo, TBS 5922SE, TBS 5980 (Broke), and TBS 6902.
 36" KU Dish Linear, 10 ft prime focus Mesh, 7.5ft prime focus mesh dish C and KU.
7 Stationary KU dishes.
Skywanderer

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Posts: 111
Reply with quote  #4 
I opened up the S10 and removed the power board to look at the caps.


Majortom --

The thread you linked to was very informative.  After looking at your pictures closely and comparing the caps in the picture with mine in the S10, it appears that C11 and C15 are bulging at the top. All the others seemed to be just fine.

Mountaineer --

1.  a.  yes.
     b.  Yes the coaxial was not attached.  Did not power on.
     c.  Most likely after comparing the pictures in Majortom's post with my caps.
     d.  Does not power up.

2.  Checked.  Not loose.

3.  No corrosion. (No corrosion around here -- this area is very arid.  Iron even has a difficult time rusting.  I live in a canyon area that has high, sandstone walls. Imagine Moab, Utah.  I'm in Colorado about 4 miles from the Utah state line/35 miles from Moab).

4.  I think I know the answer to that:  will not power up.


How come when the S10 is connected to the computer then unplugged for about 10 seconds and plugged back in, the S10 will boot back up.  Then, when the S10 is disconnected from the computer, unplugged from the wall for 1 minute, plugged back in in its normal place, the S10 will not power up?

I'm going to town tomorrow and see if anyone there is knowledgeable about these caps and if they may have the caps in stock. My past experiences with electronics people in town has been frustrating.  I may have to order the parts somewhere and do the work myself.  From the looks of things, replacing the caps is not a difficult thing to do.

Is there a specific type of soldering gun which would work best? 

If I have to order the caps, where would ya'll suggest I check out on the webb?





majortom

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Reply with quote  #5 
Cool should be an easy fix then. All bets are off with bad caps in the power supply.
That is typical behaviour for bad caps in a power supply for any electronic equipment.
ie - Erratic and unpredictable operation.

For your C11 and C15 read off the values printed on the side of the parts. What are the Capacitance values ( in uF ) and voltage ratings (in VDC) of your C11 and C15? Need that info so we can point you to a good source of replacement parts.

Any pencil type soldering iron in the 25 to 35 Watt range, a wet sponge (to periodically clean the tip) some 60/40 tin/lead Solder and some solder wick should get the job done. When you do replace them, you have to take note of where the polarity mark is located. The replacements will need to be installed with the same orientation. Otherwise they will destroy themselves and quite often explode if installed backwards.

You are right, it is not difficult work, but if you have never done this type of work before I would recommend reading this article written By Phil Nelson,
http://antiqueradio.org/recap.htm#replacing

It's written in the context of replacing capacitors in antique radios and why, but the information regarding identifying, replacing and photos of newer electrolytic capacitors applies equally well to modern electronics.

I would suggest to replace all of the electrolytic capacitors on the secondary side of the switching power supply now, because even though the others aren't bulging, they may be walking wounded or outright leaky without any physical signs today. Thus you could find yourself back inside in a few days, weeks, months, or years. Once the power supply module is properly recapped I could see your S10 providing many more years of service. Your call though...


__________________
Perfect 10 7.5' mesh Chapparal C/Ku Co-Rotor feed, Norsat 8115 CBAND, Norsat 4106A Ku Thomson Saginaw Actuator, Vbox positioner,
Home Brew Polarotor683 Servo circuit. Openbox S9, Prof7500, v4l-updatelee linux drivers installed.
ricardo's geo-orbit archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20071202191450/http://www.geo-orbit.org:80/sizepgs/tuningp2.html
andyinyakima

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Reply with quote  #6 
If you have never changed capacitors before, find a piece of equipment that you don't care about to practice on.  If you don't have a junker at home try Goodwill, Salvation Army, or go to a computer store and see if they have a PCI or ISA card with the same size caps.

I say to practice because if you don't apply the heat just right you could delaminate the copper trace and then that is another can of worms. I have lived in humid climates and arid climates. The electrolyte in the capacitors dry up faster in dry climates especially if the units set on the shelf without power for any length of time. That's an observation I have made from doing electronic repair in Yakima (arid) since 1976.

I have had some desoldering experiences where I have heated the traces to the point of delaminating the copper, mostly cheap circuits using 1 mil copper versus 2 mil, in tight circuits and the capacitors leaked electrolyte on the board.

So again please practice on something that is worthless and get familiar with your solder iron's heat. If you find your having trouble; hopefully not, just reply here. I'll watch and root for ya S10.

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andyinyakima
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Recs: TBS6983, TBS5925 __ Ant: 90cm on SG6100__OSes: Linux with v4l-updatelee drivers __ RPi2 with v4l-updatelee drivers

Open Book, Open Source, You have to Open it to Know what's in it!
majortom

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Reply with quote  #7 
That's a good call, finding something ya don't care about to work on first.
It's not a bad thing to learn how to do right....

To put in to perspective, the going rate to restore an old antique radio ranges anywhere from $15 to $25 per tube. Which consists mainly of replacing all of the paper and electrolytic capacitors in the radio, and not the tubes[biggrin] A lot of people in that business (more realistically just doing it for fun on the side) would estimate that way because it's easier than counting up all the parts that are gonna need replacing ahead of time. And ya can always count on the more tubes, the more capacitors in the circuit. I use that as a worst case example because with old radios that have survived to the year 2014 you can count on every paper and electrolytic capacitor in the thing as being defective.

In a modern repair shop they will charge by the hour, and that's IF you could convince them to work on it for you, which isn't likely. There just aren't any friendly neighborhood satellite receiver repair shops around.

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Perfect 10 7.5' mesh Chapparal C/Ku Co-Rotor feed, Norsat 8115 CBAND, Norsat 4106A Ku Thomson Saginaw Actuator, Vbox positioner,
Home Brew Polarotor683 Servo circuit. Openbox S9, Prof7500, v4l-updatelee linux drivers installed.
ricardo's geo-orbit archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20071202191450/http://www.geo-orbit.org:80/sizepgs/tuningp2.html
Skywanderer

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Posts: 111
Reply with quote  #8 
The S10 is up and running again !!!

When I went to town yesterday, I was fortunate to find one of those "friendly neighborhood" electronics repair places. I did have intentions of doing the work myself, but....

I showed him the power supply unit.  He took the psu out of my hand, saw the bubbled capacitors and immediately replaced them with better quality ones.  He also checked the entire board thoroughly and replaced two more capacitors.  All within a span of about 20  minutes.  He said pay me whatever you think it's worth.

It did not matter to him what the power supply unit came out of or what it was being used for.  He knew exactly what to do without hesitation.  I guess you would too if you had been in the electronics field for 50 years.  He also said he designed these kind of units in the past. 

He said he originally moved to Grand Junction, CO to retire, but ended up opening up a repair shop.  He is planning on retiring in the near future.  He is getting his camper trailer ready.

Needless to say, I was so impressed by this person. 

I put the psu in the S10 when I got home, hooked it all up and turned it on.  Yup...booted up to no channel.  So, I flashed a copy of my channel list from last year into the S10. 

Everything works!!

The old capacitors replaced were the C11, C14, C15, C16.  I did not take note which voltages and uF values belonged to each capacitor location.  But anyway, two of them were 35v 220uF; a  10v 470uF, and a 10v 1000uF.   I don't know the name of the new capacitors except for the letters TK. They are definitely a better quality and should last a long time.

I  appreciate the information ya'll gave me.  That really did help in understanding the situation.[thumb]

I have a piece of advice to go along with everyone's information:  keep a current copy of your satellite and channel list handy.  If I did not happen to have an old copy, I would be starting from scratch -- the long way.  I also happened to have a copy of the firmware I had uploaded  into the S10 a year ago. 

Final note:  I have a junk piece of "something" from a computer place to practice soldering. I have no idea what it is.[biggrin]


ve1jot

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Reply with quote  #9 
I have rescued motherboards, flat-screen TV's (I have 12 big ones now, lol), DVD recorders, some industrial test equipment, and many MANY computer monitors...all had badcaps...rescued from the electronics recycler...soldering is an excellent talent to learn..
A question to the gang: can anyone suggest a good capacitance meter to obtain? Most I've seen are
only good for small values...I wish to properly test up to 1000uf, but it seems nothing I can find exists to test these...yes, I know I could probably just try charging them, and measure the decay rate under a small load, but this process would be better automated, hah! Great to see component level work still being done..I'm the only one I know of in the entire province that does it, lol...

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unidirectional sg2100(won't move east) and very old Tee-Comm "The Dish Mover"
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #10 
Awesome! Glad you got it working.
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3 Edison OS mini's, 3 Openbox S10s, 2 Openbox S9's, NFusion HD, 2 Prof 7500's, Genpix Skywalker 1, 2 Optibox Anacondas, Azbox me, Azbox minime, 2 Jynxboxes, ismart m100, izzibox, TBS 6982, Vigica C60s, Optibox Raptor, azbox Bravissimo, TBS 5922SE, TBS 5980 (Broke), and TBS 6902.
 36" KU Dish Linear, 10 ft prime focus Mesh, 7.5ft prime focus mesh dish C and KU.
7 Stationary KU dishes.
andyinyakima

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Reply with quote  #11 
The best cap checker I have found is the Oscilloscope with the capacitor under full load. Check DC level and AC ripple at the same time. I got to the point of checking high frequency ripple with switch mode power supplies. High frequency ripple can create some real "dog" problems, most of those show up in R&D.

Skywanderer what was the brand of the bad caps and what temp were they rated. A lot of "economy" equipment under $1000 will run 85 degree caps. I found power supplies should always run 105 degree caps. Did you happen to notice what type of soldering equipment you technician used? Solder tools have to run hotter to compensate for "lead free" solder. I bought a Radio Shack adjustable solder station when it was on sale. It was on sale for a reason, does small jobs ok but..... Weller was the last good station that I used and even they have bad models. That is why I asked you what your tech used?

Glad your unit is running! 

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andyinyakima
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Recs: TBS6983, TBS5925 __ Ant: 90cm on SG6100__OSes: Linux with v4l-updatelee drivers __ RPi2 with v4l-updatelee drivers

Open Book, Open Source, You have to Open it to Know what's in it!
majortom

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Reply with quote  #12 
I just use the one built in to my DMM. Works fine for just testing capacitance.
But ya might really want an ESR meter, something that will test Capacitance and more importantly test for leakage resistance while in circuit. I don't have one myself, but could definitely use one once in a while.

I have also been meaning to build one of these, the old octopus circuit.

http://www.qsl.net/kd7rem/pdf/octopus.pdf

One of the guys I used to work with had a unit from Huntron on his bench, that essentially was a fancy version of that circuit and an oscilliscope  in one box. He always swore by it, but I never used it much if at all.



__________________
Perfect 10 7.5' mesh Chapparal C/Ku Co-Rotor feed, Norsat 8115 CBAND, Norsat 4106A Ku Thomson Saginaw Actuator, Vbox positioner,
Home Brew Polarotor683 Servo circuit. Openbox S9, Prof7500, v4l-updatelee linux drivers installed.
ricardo's geo-orbit archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20071202191450/http://www.geo-orbit.org:80/sizepgs/tuningp2.html
Skywanderer

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Reply with quote  #13 
andyinyakima -- I only know that the temp of the caps was 105.  I don't know kind/type of equipment he used to check and put the new caps on.  He had been in this line of work for many, many, many years and I can only assume he used the right stuff.

All I really do know -- the S10 is working excellent.

I also meant to include a notation that if a person has a problem with the S10 like I did...don't use the boot loader immediately.  Take the cover off the S10 and check and see if any of the capacitors are bulging first.  Take the power supply out and have checked, and replace capacitors as needed. Reinstall the power supply unit.  If the S10 boots up just fine, then you may not need to reload the FW and a channel list.  Those items should still be in memory.  Alot of reprogramming will be eliminated.  


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