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Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #1 

Tried one of these feedhorns out that Rick is selling.Many know I am a fan of a Orthomode but Dual C/kU Quad type feeds as it makes life easier when not having to deal with a servo for several reasons.

Have tinkered with several quads ( Bullseyes ) through the years and several orthos.ADL,Chaparral,Seavey and now the Pansat DP-4.

Always looking for a feed that will perform the best.I decided to try out the new Pansat and compare it to all of the above mentioned feeds using various LNB`s.Out in the back yard was a 10`KTI and a 10` Unimesh.

One thing for sure is The ADL Quad performed the worst.The Chap Bullseye performed very well but with my tinkering the Pansat DP-4 was the best performer when one wants a quad type feed ( Bullseye ) for a Bud.!

There is a post many yrs ago on another forum from a great member here pendragon about the db loss when using a Bullseye type feed and he posted about an average of .5-1.0 db loss using this type of feed..I experienced the same comparable loss here also.

Do believe this loss is attributed to the Ku feed tube...Of the lnb`s I used were Cal Amp PLL`s of a couple different models,a couple Norsat DRO`s of diff models,a couple Echostars ( Junk ) and a couple different Gardiner DRO`s....I actually did my baseline using a couple Amp PLL`s with an ortho.I know I tried more but a waist of time to report!

I am convinced when messin round with these quad feed horns that good quality lnb is an absolute must!..I will share these model #s if someone request`s but ultimately if ya skimp in this area with Bullseye ( quad feed ) it will reflect...Get what ya pay for there and it shows!

With these higher modulation feeds and many having trouble with the 16APSK mux on Galaxy 19 I was pleasantly surprised on both of my dish`s I was testing with I was able to lock and keep a solid lock..Both the KTI and Unimesh claim the specs F/D to work with the feed`s mentioned but The only ones I could get to lock this mux was the Bullseye and the DP-4.The DP-4 I consistently have better readings than all other feedhorns mentioned hands down.

Since all my BUDS in the yard are dedicated with a ortho feed I focused on Cband performance I literally did not spend alot of time with Ku but I must say the DP-4 on a properly tuned Unimesh or KTI will perform as well as a fixed commercial 1.0 or even as well as a 1.2..Just my thinking but I am not willing to lose much from Cband with a Quad type feed compared to a ortho but the Pansat is IMO the best of this type of feed on the market.

Love to hear from any folks with Bullseyes ( quad ) feedhorns....Could have spent more time in detail about all this but I would rather spend my time in the yard so anything else I can do please post and I will do my best.....DP-4 Is a winner.



__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #2 
Spent more time out in the yard tonight.I ended up using a couple Cal Amp Mini Mags for Cband ( DRO ).and a Couple Cal Amp Ku lnb`s.1 being a PLL and the other a DRO.

Have not spent much time with Ku as Cband was a priority with this feed along with others I have tinkered with.After figuring out what dish I want to keep this feedhorn on and plugging away I am very happy with ku performance..This is with a 10 ft Unimesh..

I keep a 1.2 Andrews on Galaxy 16 and it does not keep a lock on several of the tp`s I would like...Spent many hrs in the yard dealing with solids and various lnb`s but I have always chalked it up as Galaxy 16 is weak for us in the South East.! Maybe it is but I have no way of knowing for sure as never heard a post back from anyone in this area!!!

Tonight I connected the rg6 running from the Ku lnb`s to the same multiswitch that has been moving the dish for Cband and started saving Ku positions.

11892 H 6899 On Galaxy 16 is now booming like I have never seen.

Here is a couple pics.

001.jpg  002.jpg 


__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
chewie

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #3 
Hello Hockeynut
Nice review, I just order one of this Pansat DP-4, is going to be installed on my Laux Beta-9 dish, is a 9 feet dish solid, I have an orthomode setup on this dish only for c-band, I have 2 Norsat 8115 lnb's with a Chap dual feed and it connected to a 4x8 switch modify to supply constant +18 and 13 volts to the LNB'S, which switch are you using?
My switch is inside the house because it requires power to it, the thing I don't like about my setup is that  I have to run 2 cables from the Lnb's to inside the house, I would like to run just one cable.
The F/D on my dish is .31 so this feed will work for it.
I have to look around for the ku LNB'S, what do you recommend?
Please let me know.
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
Chewie.

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Captain

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Reply with quote  #4 
Hockeynut, those Cal Amp Mini Mags lnbs are not A bad quality lnb at all, in fact they perform better than a lot of the cheep China junk that folks buy to this day. but my question is could you find a bigger Ku lnb for the vertical port that you have their, and that's a nice looking Channel Master mess reflector looks like they laid that mess pretty flat.
Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks chewie.I am using all Zinwell 4803`s in my system.I know what you mean about cables running into the house.I put a 4x8 sheet of plywood on the wall inside my shed and that is where all my switching is so I have the minimal amount of RG6 runs coming into the house.I had thought about a weatherproof enclosure for my switching but figured inside the shed would be the best option just because of the number of switches I am using..Weatherproof enclosure could be your answer as you only need 1 Multiswitch.

Have you checked with Rick about Ku lnb`s?..He has some nice Norsats.Can`t go wrong with them.

@ Captain that was the biggest Cal Amp Ku lnb I could find.lol.



__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
chewie

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #6 
Hello Hokeynut
I received my feed today and can wait to install it, I have a question regarding the dielectric plate for circular signal,  I talk to Rick about it But I don't remember if he said that both of them come off, One was easy to come off, the other one still in there, do both need to come off if I don,t want circular signals.
Please let me know thanks is advance.
Regards.
Chewie
Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yup both dielectric plates need to come out.Should come right out no problem.

What did you decide on for lnb`s chewie?

__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
chewie

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #8 
Hello HockeynuT
I was able to remove both plates, I will install it this weekend and see how it goes, regarding the Lnb's, I have 2 norsat 8115 for C-BAND and I am going to use 2 norsat 4106 for the KU band, we will see what happens.
Regards
Chewie
chewie

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #9 
Hello Hockeynut
Well setup my DP-4 this past weekend only the c-band side, it turn out good, the SQ STRENGTH was lower than my previous setup, I am using the same Norsat 8115 DRO lnb,s, I am wondering if the Norsat PLL LNB's can get me more signal strength, I am waiting for the Ku lnb I order from Rick, it should get here by tomorrow, therefore I will trying the KU this coming weekend.
If you have any toughs on how to improve the c-band signal let me know.
Thnks in advance.
Regards.
Chewie
Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #10 
How much of a Cband loss are you experiencing chewie?..I know here with this unimesh the F/D of .4 I am seeing a loss of about .5 db`s compared to the Chaparral dual Cband ortho.Which to me is not bad and really normal for this type of feed.

Never tried any of those Norsat PLL`s but the specs look pretty good.No doubt good lnb`s is a plus!..As Captain stated even the Mini Mags are better than the chinese junk that many buy...I know that to be true.




__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
chewie

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Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #11 
Hello Hockeynut
I am not sure about the loss in DB, the loss on C-BAND it was about 6% to 9% SQ, but one satellite my south I gain 116.8W.
Thew F/D ration on my dish is .31 this feed looks like is not compatible according to the template that came with it,m Manage to get it to work, so far I get pretty much what I was getting with the chap dual feed. I got my sat meter out today and going to go to war with this feed until i get what I want.
I will be replacing my coax cable with solid copper conductor cable and see if i get better signal.
I am using the Norast 8115 DRO, I want to try the Norsat PLL LNB'S and see if it improve the SQ , If any member in this forum has some experience with the PLL'S I would like to have their input.
I hope the KU band works better.
here are some pictures of my setup.
Regards.
Chewie

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Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #12 
Ku really shines with this DP-4.Looks like it`s coming along pretty well chewie.
__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
pendragon

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Posts: 1,038
Reply with quote  #13 

Hi Jeff - great series of posts on the DP-4. This comes at an opportune time because I have a 10' Unimesh ready to go up, and I was planning to configure it with my current dual ortho feed to cover situations where I want C and Ku simultaneously off the same orbital location. Since you've tried a fair number of these feeds, I was wondering whether there are any obvious physical differences between the DP-4 and the others that might explain why it does so well?

I've only compared the ADL (own) and Chaparral (borrowed) feeds. I didn't measure any meaningful difference between the two on C-band, and that made sense because there isn't much one can do to improve on the designs. You're right that the Ku waveguide causes some of the CNR loss (about 0.5 dB), and they have to reradiate the RF because of where the C-band LNBs need to be placed. I don't recall about the Chap, but at least the ADL has VSWR adjustments on the C-band side.

The ADL is really a horrible performer on Ku, and my recollection is the Chap was better, but not dramatically. My measurements indicated some of this was caused by serious under-illumination (like a laser beam), and perhaps because the Ku waveguides weren't optimally positioned for focus when the C-band side was optimized. Clearly these feeds work best on high f/D dishes, such as 0.4 or more.

After returning the borrowed Chap feed, I began looking at what I could do to improve the ADL, as it had become the hangar queen of my feeds. I never liked the long Ku waveguide and the contortions they used to split the polarizations for the separate LNBs. In the end I removed the back end of the waveguide and substituted a shortened one with a C120 flange on the end. That gave me the choice of a fair number of dual-pol LNBs. This didn't stop the beaming or the mis-focus problems, but the CNRs did improve by several dB on Ku.

So this makes me curious about the DP-4, and what they did differently. My ADL dual ortho's Ku waveguide is about 1 mm (say 1/32") recessed behind the outer C-band waveguide's edge. I've alternately considered shortening or lengthening the Ku waveguide at the feed opening - either would improve something, but compromise another. Would it be possible for you to check this measurement on your dual orthos? Thanks!

Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #14 
Here we go pendragon.Pic not so good but the Ku waveguide is protuding approx 1/16" beyond the Cband casting edge.
29.jpg 



__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982,TBS 6902.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.
pendragon

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Posts: 1,038
Reply with quote  #15 
Thanks Hockeynut! This could be the most significant reasons for the DP-4's better Ku performance. I haven't run a computer model, but on the surface I would think this slight protrusion might match the Ku side to a high f/D dish like the Unimesh (0.4), rather than under-illuminating like the other dual ortho feeds. It would also come at the cost of further separating the ideal focal points within the C and Ku waveguides, but if one optimizes for Ku, the loss on C would be less than the other way around. Very interesting, because I'm surprised they had the guts to protrude the Ku waveguide by that much.
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