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tread

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #1 
hello, everyone.At the moment we have our dish angle finder set at 54.1.latitude, our property latitude is 54.1.and our property longitude is -127.7. When we moved the dish from west to east and east to west using our v-box our satellite finder needle hardly made a noise. we were at lower 37.5 latitude  on our angle finder and even had a picture Canal 12.1 station. so what are we doing wrong today. Staying close to computor if anyone has answers please
Tread
continued--- should our property latitude 54.1 be the same number for the angle finder we set the dish up with 54.1
gregom

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Reply with quote  #2 
I guess your due south satellite is 127W ... try to pickup Nasa ch on 127 and go from there ...
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tread

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregom
I guess your due south satellite is 127W ... try to pickup Nasa ch on 127 and go from there ...

when you say due south satellite is 127W does due south mean your true magnetic south
if so we are 162.2 
tread
virginiap20007

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Posts: 1,010
Reply with quote  #4 
Magnetic and "true" north are generally not the same, because the axis on which the earth turns is not magnetic north.  When I set up my dish in Ceres, Ca., I had to adjust about 16deg from magnetic north. I then had to point my dish 180deg in the other direction[south].  Since you are in B.C Canada, I would guess that your deg difference between magnetic and "true" north would be even greater. Your "true" south would be 180 from that.  The dish set up book that came with my "radio shack' dish had some great info, for dish set up.  Jess out in Fresno, California
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tread

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Posts: 17
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by virginiap20007
Magnetic and "true" north are generally not the same, because the axis on which the earth turns is not magnetic north.  When I set up my dish in Ceres, Ca., I had to adjust about 16deg from magnetic north. I then had to point my dish 180deg in the other direction[south].  Since you are in B.C Canada, I would guess that your deg difference between magnetic and "true" north would be even greater. Your "true" south would be 180 from that.  The dish set up book that came with my "radio shack' dish had some great info, for dish set up.  Jess out in Fresno, California

Virginia- thanks for the reply- rick helped us awhile back-we are 180 degrees south 17.8 degrees difference =162.20 true magnetic south.
All this figuring we get mixed up when to use our compass and when to adjust our latitude elevation using a angle finder
tread
virginiap20007

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Posts: 1,010
Reply with quote  #6 
Well.. I no longer have a big dish, because my wife and I are now in a V A home in Fresno Ca.  I do have a Linkbox 9000i local and an iview 3500 that I use for OTA.  I still log into three forums just to keep informed as to what is happening.  This was a fun hobby for me.  Enjoy!  Jess out in Fresno. California.  ps.  My wife Virginia logged me into "Ricks" site and I've never changed that.
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9ft.button hook mesh HtoH mount; 4dtv922 C/KU feed horn w/ slaved AZ prem, looped pan 9500, and a Manhattan at the end.. Got a philips suround sound in there and SONY BRAVIA TV
wejones

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tread

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregom
I guess your due south satellite is 127W ... try to pickup Nasa ch on 127 and go from there ...


when you say due south satellite is 127W does due south mean your true magnetic south
if so we are 162.2 
tread

The true south sat is the sat is the sat your dish should be aiming at when your dish is at it's highest.  If you've done the magnetic declination properly that could be at the compass heading you mention, but your dish should be at it's highest point.  If it's not aimed in the proper direction you would need to rotate the whole mount on the pole, but that is a very fine adjustment.
   Another non-compass way to do it is to find out when the sun will be due true south. Go to
https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi#top
and use
Ephemeris Type [change] :      OBSERVER
Target Body [change] :      Sun [Sol] [10]
enter the appropriate observer location and time span to (such as from today until tomorrow)
Table Settings [change] :      QUANTITIES=4
Display/Output [change] :      plain text
Then click the generate button to get a report.  Look for the time closest to when the Azimuth is 180. This time will be UTC (Greenwich mean time) so you need to adjust to your time zone (EDT is a 4 hour difference).
So if it's a sunny day, go out and sight from behind the dish to see what direction the sun is, and that is your true south, and the direction your sat should be aiming to see your true south satellite.
   At that point, you should adjust your latitude and declination by one of the two methods (conventional or modified), or, if you have already set your declination, just change your elevation up or down until you get the strongest signal, or visa-versa if you think the elevation is set properly.

obloco

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Posts: 121
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tread

Virginia- thanks for the reply- rick helped us awhile back-we are 180 degrees south 17.8 degrees difference =162.20 true magnetic south.
All this figuring we get mixed up when to use our compass and when to adjust our latitude elevation using a angle finder
tread


So 162.2 South on your compass should be the same as your location - 127.7 - pointing at compass 162.2 should have you withing a degree of the satellite at 127 West/Galaxy 13 and 161.5 South should have you dead on, and your dish should be (as someone else mentioned) at its highest elevation along its potential arc. NASA was recommended as a channel to look for, and I second that motion.

Hope that helps!



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majortom

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Reply with quote  #9 
You do realize there is no such location on earth as 162 South?
And we wonder why new folks get confused.

Just a suggestion...If you are going to post helping someone new, please get your facts and terminology straight before doing so.


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ricardo's geo-orbit archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20071202191450/http://www.geo-orbit.org:80/sizepgs/tuningp2.html

wejones

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Reply with quote  #10 
Just to pile on 😉 , in the interest of showing how easy it is to make mistakes relative to adding vs subtracting, if I'm not mistaken (likely), I think the .3 deg adjustment should have been subtracted rather than added to the compass heading.  Not that that should make a difference, but there are several angular parameters related to dish alignment that I get backwards as often as getting it right, so I usually have to get a pen & paper out and draw the angles just to make sure I'm changing in the right direction.

Also, relative to the accuracy of using a magnetic compass, that 17.8 magnetic deviation has changed to 17.9 since Rick made the calculation, ie right now, it's changing by .12 deg/year.  The magnetic deviation where I live has changed almost 2 degrees since I bought this property back in the 1990s.  so if you must use a compass, use a web site like:
https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/calculators/magcalc.shtml#declination to get a number, ie:

Image1234.jpg  Also, be aware that there can be significant local deviations with respect to magnetic compass headings.  When I first moved here, I used to use a compass to locate the heading to a distant mountain so I could cut down the right trees to get a view, and I observed up to 4 or 5 deg variations in headings obtained at the 3 places I could see the mountain from my property.  I don't know what the cause of the local variations was, perhaps some farmer or logger burried some broken iron wagon wheel or something 100 years ago, but I soon came to the opinion that I shouldn't trust a compass to get an accurate heading, and particularly don't use an old map to get the magnetic declination, and don't stand too close to the iron pole/dish mount when using the compass.
   I try to use the sun for headings, but even that isn't easy to get accurate, even if you have accurate numbers.  All these methods really only get you in the ballpark, but luckily you can usually make fine adjustments by peaking on signals to get right on target.




obloco

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Posts: 121
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
You do realize there is no such location on earth as 162 South?
And we wonder why new folks get confused.

Just a suggestion...If you are going to post helping someone new, please get your facts and terminology straight before doing so.



Just addressing what they are seeing on their compass, and how they have related it in the forum. It is a compass heading, not a location. A compass gives direction, never location, not sure why you'd conflate the two. I did say that compass heading (being true south) would be pointing the same as their current location of -127.7

There is a 162 on their compass. N is 0, S is 180. Technically the heading would be SSE not S if you want to pick nits.

With the compass orientation they have already provided, with 0 pointing North, pointing their dish at compass heading 161.5 will get the desired results, or at least be in the ballpark, if that magnetic offset is correct.










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BillinIndy

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Posts: 1,399
Reply with quote  #12 
This a story that doesn't really apply or help the OP, so skip it if you like but just to demonstrate how frustrating things can be...

I'm going off on a tangent here to tell a story that happened back in the early 90s when I worked for a company that was the subcontractor for Hughes Network Systems Personal Earth Stations. Along with Scientific Atlanta they were the first in VSAT data communications. Walmart was one of the first to use the system at every store and it allowed them to connect their store computer system to the home office computer system over satellite, then Ku Gstar4, with a RS232 connection. Yes, it was that long ago.

We didn't do the installs but the service calls. At a particular trucking company that was implementing the system the contracted out of town installers couldn't find the satellite after trying for about three hours. I guess they got frustrated and asked if a service tech in the area (me) could come out and figure out what was wrong.

I pulled into the parking lot looked up and saw them installing the dish on the roof of this trucking company using a non penetrating mount. I knew by being a local boy and looking at it from the ground their azimuth was way off but the elevation looked pretty good. This was suppose to be a simple AZ/EL mount.

Keep in mind this was back in the day before easy internet access and smart phones with apps. About all we had were the compass and inclinometers.

I climbed the ladder and met the frustrated installers and told them "Guys your azimuth is way off." No way they replied and showed me their compass was indicating the proper azimuth to the degree, and it was. They had been at this for 3 hours, I felt so bad for them. I didn't have the heart to ask them but I had to.... "Guys you do realize you're standing on a steel roof trying to use a magnetic compass?"

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