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superhero55

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Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #1 
Got this dish back in September, it's been a slow process to get it up. Travel, work, real life stuff was always "getting in the way".

Original post about getting the dish (with some pics):
https://rickcaylor.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1305567673&postcount=5&forum=98803

Here's some pics of the setup.

Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/0WNiNnH.jpg
Digging the hole


Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/aC3ZyZI.jpg
Pole has been inserted and 75% of the cement is poured in, rebar is added to cement for strength.

a few months passed and I finally got some helping hands to get the dish on the pole. It definitely needed 3 guys, had a 4th person as well just for extra. It's a HEAVY dish and awkward. No problem for 3 people.


Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/DuNie97.jpg
Dish on the pole! Success!

[RTnWSgel] 
Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/RTnWSge.jpg
Motor installed on Dish. This was a bit tricky, the Prodelin mount requires the motor to slide through a circular mounting hole, well that can't be done with the weather boot in place. The only way I found to do it was to remove the actual motor part from the actuator rod and insert the actuator rod from the opposite end and slide it 'down', then reattach the motor to the rod.


Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/5qYmhwi.jpg
Dish scrubbed clean and LNB arms and LNBs installed!


Full Resolution: https://i.imgur.com/SjBQoKT.jpg
rough cabling dropped


Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/PdONhKo.jpg
Coax hooked up to LNBs



So now I'm at the point of aligning it.... but I am having trouble, not even get whiffs of signal. I'm using my 1.2M offset as reference for east/west as well as Dishpointer. I think I'm OK on the east/west, at least close enough for some signal.

Per the manual (PDF in the thread link at the top), it says to put my inclinometer on Position A, my latitude is 40°, my inclinometer shows '90' when at "0" because it is only magnetized on one side (it's the only one Home Depot sells!). So by my math 90 - 40 = 50. So the inclinometer on Position A should read 50. So that's what I adjusted it to:

Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/QeMc3rn.jpg

the manual says the Declination is offset angle of 22.3 + your declination. Dishpointer states 6.3° for me, so 22.3 + 6.3 = 28.6°. Here's where things are possibly a bit fuzzy. Manual says the Declination is to be set at Position B. So I think the correct Declination reading on my inclinometer should be 78.6. I arrived at that by taking the 50 reading above on Position A and adding 28.6 to it to arrive at 78.6. I set the declination bolt so my inclinometer is reading just under 79.

Full resolution: https://i.imgur.com/qzlDOOm.jpg


Spent a good 3-4 hours trying to troubleshoot. I am using a TBS6985 card (which works since I tested my 1.2M on it). To power these LNBs I am using the TruSpec SPI-14/18-2150. I have that set to 17/18V for both polarities (as the LNBs say 12-24V)

Here's pretty much what a CrazyScan looks like at any position:


slight variances at different points in the arc. but not even getting a whiff of any strong QPSK signals.

would appreciate any input or insight! Maybe I am overlooking something? Thank you all!

photoman76

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Posts: 11,190
Reply with quote  #2 
If I disconnect my lnbf from my TBS 5925, I get similar scans.
Perhaps the lnbs are not getting power?


superhero55

Registered:
Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #3 
Good point. I did originally try just letting the TBS card power the LNB, I did get a different scan. I guess I can go back and try that method again
photoman76

Registered:
Posts: 11,190
Reply with quote  #4 
RF levels should be around -50 to -60 dBm.
superhero55

Registered:
Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #5 
OK, with LNBs plugged directly into TBS, I get this, pretty much on the whole arc.
Untitled.png 

superhero55

Registered:
Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #6 
also, it might be a dumb question, but which is the vertical LNB in this pic:
https://i.imgur.com/5qYmhwi.jpg

the one with the coax input pointing towards the camera, or the one with the coax input pointing towards the sky?
superhero55

Registered:
Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #7 
I've also ruled that the TruSpec *IS* providing power because I have a SatHero 100HD unit that uses receiver in power to power the unit (no external battery or power needed), and when I plug a patch cable from the 'Power to LNB H/V' on the TruSpec into the SatHero 100HD, it turns on and has power.
photoman76

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Posts: 11,190
Reply with quote  #8 
From the scan, it appears that the TBS is not getting any signal.
It's all just noise.
RimaNTSS

Registered:
Posts: 449
Reply with quote  #9 
@superhero55 Nice project! While you do installation and first tests you better put simple universal LNBF instead of original block. And when you get arc adjusted then, if needed, change LNB again.
a33

Registered:
Posts: 88
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superhero55

So now I'm at the point of aligning it.... but I am having trouble, not even get whiffs of signal. I'm using my 1.2M offset as reference for east/west as well as Dishpointer. I think I'm OK on the east/west, at least close enough for some signal.

Per the manual (PDF in the thread link at the top), it says to put my inclinometer on Position A, my latitude is 40°, my inclinometer shows '90' when at "0" because it is only magnetized on one side (it's the only one Home Depot sells!). So by my math 90 - 40 = 50. So the inclinometer on Position A should read 50. So that's what I adjusted it to:
....

the manual says the Declination is offset angle of 22.3 + your declination. Dishpointer states 6.3° for me, so 22.3 + 6.3 = 28.6°. Here's where things are possibly a bit fuzzy. Manual says the Declination is to be set at Position B. So I think the correct Declination reading on my inclinometer should be 78.6. I arrived at that by taking the 50 reading above on Position A and adding 28.6 to it to arrive at 78.6. I set the declination bolt so my inclinometer is reading just under 79.


Not quite right, I think.
Elevation 0 at inclinometer 90 degrees
means elevation 50 at inclinometer 40 degrees.

Total declination then is 40 + 22.3 + declination offset = about 68.6 degrees; your reasoning was correct but 10 degrees inclinometer off.


BTW
I would not use the traditional motor angles the manual gives, but modified motor angles such as in the table here: https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/posts/4012366/
That way the "prealignment" for motor elevation and dish declination is almost perfect already, and the alignment to Clarke Belt involves just finding east/west alignment (finding perfect south in zero-position).

BTW2
(90 - elevation) + (declination offset) is always 46.3 for LAT 40.
So when setting motor angles with the modified angles, the total declination angle is the same as with traditional angles.
In your case just the offset angle must be added to the 46.3.

Greetz,
A33
boblop

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Posts: 3,638
Reply with quote  #11 
Notice in the pictures of angle setting how the sun shadow reads a value almost 10 degrees different from where the red pointer shows "if" you are directly straight out looking from the red pointer at the numbered wheel. Thus I find the error in such angle finding devices to be far off from the correct number or little value for final setting of dish alignment. So take a sat receiver and tv out to the dish and go directly from receiver with short coax to one lnb. Now move dish very slowly until a locked tp condition is found. This is where a true spectrum analyzer makes life very easy. When you try and use a sat card and software to attempt this the receiver gain goes to max and any noise appears as a big spike.

If you use a digital angle finder which many lumber yards now sell perhaps for $30 you can almost trust the angle number displayed. I have run EBSPro in loop mode and it gets a little closer to almost being a spectrum analyzer but you still have the issue of the time delay for a receiver to "lock on" to the tp freq.


__________________

Never throw it away--cause guys need stuff--a lot of stuff

superhero55

Registered:
Posts: 511
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by a33


Not quite right, I think.
Elevation 0 at inclinometer 90 degrees
means elevation 50 at inclinometer 40 degrees.

Total declination then is 40 + 22.3 + declination offset = about 68.6 degrees; your reasoning was correct but 10 degrees inclinometer off.


BTW
I would not use the traditional motor angles the manual gives, but modified motor angles such as in the table here: https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/posts/4012366/
That way the "prealignment" for motor elevation and dish declination is almost perfect already, and the alignment to Clarke Belt involves just finding east/west alignment (finding perfect south in zero-position).

BTW2
(90 - elevation) + (declination offset) is always 46.3 for LAT 40.
So when setting motor angles with the modified angles, the total declination angle is the same as with traditional angles.
In your case just the offset angle must be added to the 46.3.

Greetz,
A33


Thank you for the tips. I’m not able to wrap my head around the “10 degrees off”. Are you saying I’m 10 off because the sun shadow on the pointer is off? Or did I do math wrong? Thank you.
boblop

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Posts: 3,638
Reply with quote  #13 
I was pointing out how because of where the red pointer is located that one can induce an error reading it by where they place their head and eye balls just as the sun shadow is by where the sun is at a given moment.

Bottom line here is this nice dish has a fine alignment so go ahead and tweak the angle to see if you can lock in a tp and thus know you are on the sat arc. I have this same size dish but with a different mounting so I installed three drive motors so I can align it all from inside of my house. This really is a nice dish!!!


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Never throw it away--cause guys need stuff--a lot of stuff

Hockeynut

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Posts: 9,945
Reply with quote  #14 
Very nice dish superhero. Have one here also that am in the middle of building a custom polar mount for. You must have nabbed the last new Prodelin 1.8 polar mount as I could not find any anywhere.

One thing thats hard to tell from the pics but are you using your true south sat for these adjustments when getting started?. Where are you located? So important to peak on your true south sat if possible then go from there after the declination and dish elevation is set to adjust your azimuth.Would definitely take boblops advice and invest in a small magnetic digital angle finder.Them little guys are very accurate.When I`m tinkering in the yard its always with me.Have used the inclinometer you have pictured but after getting the digital angle finder that puppy is back in the package it came in 

As far as the question about which is the vertical LNB. I always use the lnb coming straight out the back of the feed as vertical.This for Cband and Ku orthos both.

What are you using as far as a multiswitch and positioner for the lnb`s and actuator?

__________________
Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-58w-127w -Western Ku Dish.
1.2 Ch Master with factory polar mount tracking from-12.5w-81w -Eastern Ku Dish.
1.8 Prodelin with custom built polar mount in the works. Currently parked at 103.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox`s.
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,TBS 5520se,5927,6902,6903,6982.
Graphics Cards--Nvidia GT 1030,Nvidia GTX 960,Nvidia GTX 1060
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
a33

Registered:
Posts: 88
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superhero55

Thank you for the tips. I’m not able to wrap my head around the “10 degrees off”. Are you saying I’m 10 off because the sun shadow on the pointer is off? Or did I do math wrong? Thank you.


You're at LAT 40.
That would mean elevation due south of 90-40 = 50 degrees.
This is the normal rule you find everywhere (Elev = 90 - LAT), to have motor axis parallel to earth axis.
At equator, Lat=0, elevation is 90.
At pole, Lat=90, elevation = 0 (though at the poles, you cannot see the clarkebelt, unfortunately).

Elevation 0 equals inclinometer 90 degrees, with your inclinometer, you say.
So elevation 50 would mean: inclinometer 40 degrees.


So the confusion is: are you using elevation value, or are you using latitude value...??? That is causing the 10 degrees difference, in this case.
I usually calculate from elevation angle, as to not get confused myself. It all is difficult enough, when also using the modified angles.

Greetz,
A33

Edit: Also inclinometer apps for mobile phones are quite handy, and also precise I believe. I use one of those.
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