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wejones

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeZer
......
Notice the continuity errors..Is this a problem on their end????





Could be, but I don't think so.  Really, you shouldn't be able to lock that transponder at all with your 7301 receiver.  The mux is ACM/VCM, and multi input, and the prof shouldn't be able to handle that.  However I'm guessing that since it looks like it's staying in 8PSK all the time, is allowing you to get a partial lock.

  Looking at your images, which I didn't see at first read, you're showing zero quality, which usually means you aren't getting a lock.   I'm guessing that the continuity errors are being caused by it switching back and forth between the 2 input streams.
 
    I'm hoping that they'll up the signal a bit so that I can see what my 6983 can do with the transponder.

Since you're getting a better signal than I am, I'm wondering what would happen if you'd record a couple minutes of one of the channels.  Perhaps it might not get confused by the constant switching, and with only it might play right? 


GeeZer

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Reply with quote  #62 
2015-01-28 16_46_52-Administrator_ C__Windows_system32_cmd.exe.png

It seems to be strong enough here to get a lock..I never trust TS reader.  It would have some of my baseball games playing and say zero quality, then I would look up and it would change to 70 percent.  I have never had anything have zero quality and display audio and video as this does.  It could be mixing up the streams.  Wish I could use CrazyScan to separate them.

photoman76

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Reply with quote  #63 
I've got 14.6 dB on my 10 foot Unimesh dish.
Music Choice has no continuity errors.
But Multi 2 has both continuity and TEI errors.
ENC2P1 (Program 201) now showing color bars.
snowman

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Reply with quote  #64 
Today Im now locking it on my Amiko 8240 at 80 quality on my 10ft Unimesh. Looks like its ccm again. Will try a scan.

Edit: no programs found. Maybe its locking now but still vcm so it doesnt find anything?

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Openbox S9HD PVR, Amiko 8240 PVR, Azbox MiniMe, Geosatpro HDVR 3500 (16apsk and acm capable), prof 7500 usb, tbs5922 usb. 10ft unimish with dual linear Ku/C LNBF (DMX741). QARL-3624 Moteck 24" Super PowerJack Heavy Duty Actuator. Can see 56W to 137W
wejones

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Reply with quote  #65 
 First off, I'm still seeing it as ACM/VCM, not CCM.

Really weird, or at least interesting.
Yesterday, I was only getting about 7.5 dB on the signal.  I could lock it, but was getting tons of errors on both multi 1 and multi 2.  When I'd play channels, music occurred only for a few seconds between minutes of dead silence. 

Yesterday evening, I was watching, and the SNR started to rise up towards 8.  This morning, the SNR is up around 8.5.   Today, I get the same behavior that Photoman is reporting, ie no errors when I'm displaying the multi-1 Music Choice,  but continuity and tei errors when on the Multi-2, and I'm seeing the color bars on that one channel.   I can play the music channels fine this morning.

  The first thing that's weird is why I can get the 12180 PBS on AMC21 at 15 dB on my BUD (16-17 dB on my 1M), but only get this C-band channel at 8.5 dB.  My only explanation is that sat is a bit low in the sky here (16 deg), and my dish is aimed very close to a high voltage power transforer on a pole that's only about 40' from the dish.  So I might be picking up a lot of noise from that transformer.  And I'm thinking that since Ku has a narrower beam width, and the feed only sees the center half of the dish, perhaps the Ku beam is missing the transformer, or else maybe the noise off the transformer isn't in the Ku range.

  But the really weird or interesting thing is that this ACM/VCM signal is being picked up by receivers that shouldn't be able to handle that mode.  I assume that must be because it is staying in 8PSK mode.  I've watched it for quite a while, and it hasn't gone off 8PSK that I've seen.
    However it is very actively jumping back and forth between Multi-1 and Multi-2.  Seems like the people who aren't using a TBS receiver are just seeing Multi-1, and not Multi-2.   When I lock the transponder and go to TSREADER, sometimes it comes up in Multi-1 and sometimes it comes up in Multi-2.   If it comes up as Multi-1, then the BER in Crazyscan says zero, and I get no errors in TSREADER.   If it comes up as Multi-2, then I get very high BERs  and lots of continuity and TEI errors.  
    So it seems like these receivers have the capability of locking onto one of these multi stream things, and ignore the other.  I don't have a clue re how they do that.  I guess I'll hook this thing up to my 6983 again, and see if IT can handle it today. 


GeeZer

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Reply with quote  #66 
Welll I wish you the best of luck in getting it WEJones, as a light bulb finally went off in my head.  You see, I've seen stuff about the ACM/VCM and CCM stuff written but didn't pay it much attention since I figured it must pertain to data streams, or at least no one had actually mentioned watching or listening to anything on it.   (So far as I remember anyway.)

I now know that the Prof cards won't get this an only a couple of the TBS cards, the expensive ones, do.

I guess that my prof for some reason gets the signal, but can't discern between the multiple streams and tries to play everything at once and the result is a little of this and a little of that with errors included.  This is probably why TS reader shows no quality, it's confused.

I guess having  the TBS 6925,6983 card, a newer version of TS reader than I do, like Photoman's setup is about the only way to go.

I probably won't spend this much money on Music Choice as there are other free alternatives, but it was sure fun trying and I learned a little bit in the process...

wejones

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Reply with quote  #67 
Well, with the extra dB of SNR, my 6983 now locks the signal.
The 6983 is working pretty much the same as the 6925.  I also found that with both the 6925 and 6983, that if I had the update modulation info box checked, which has been the state that I've been using most of the time, then it was hard to control which Multi stream you would get with TSREADER, since even if you select one of the two, then before you can push the button to bring TSREADER up, it jumps over to to the other, then back and forth, so it's a flip of a coin re what stream comes up in TSREADER.  However, when I turned off the update modulation box, then you can select whether you want stream 1 or 2.    When it comes up, after clicking on the signal, it usually shows me a high BER even if the input stream box shows stream 1, however if I bring up TSREADER, and stream 1 comes up, then the BER becomes zero.  If I select stream 2 and bring up TSREADER, then the BER goes high again.  Back to stream 1 and back into TSR, BER back to zero.

Another strange thing.  With the 6983, if I bring up the mux, I usually have a BER of about 0.3 to 0.4.  However if I select stream 2, and go into TSREADER, the BER in Crazyscan immediately goes to 0.05.  The BER is always zero when on stream 1.    Strange that it's indicating a higher BER until you start streaming to TSREADER.

Anyway, neat transponder. 


wejones

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeZer
Welll I wish you the best of luck in getting it WEJones, as a light bulb finally went off in my head.  You see, I've seen stuff about the ACM/VCM and CCM stuff written but didn't pay it much attention since I figured it must pertain to data streams, or at least no one had actually mentioned watching or listening to anything on it.   (So far as I remember anyway.)

I now know that the Prof cards won't get this an only a couple of the TBS cards, the expensive ones, do.

I guess that my prof for some reason gets the signal, but can't discern between the multiple streams and tries to play everything at once and the result is a little of this and a little of that with errors included.  This is probably why TS reader shows no quality, it's confused.
.....

Probably right.
Actually, this is one of the first ACM/VCM transponders I've ever encountered that had A/V programing on it, and I'm happy to see that it seems to work on both TBS cards.  I had suspected that the 6925 didn't handle ACM/VCM properly, because it gave errors on the old NOAAPORT transponder, and most of the other ACM/VCM transponders, but I'm now suspecting that errors were either from the source or coming from the multi-stream, not the ACM/VCM. 

   Relative to your PROF and other receivers actually locking the transponder, of the various receivers I have that will do DVB-S2, with one exception, only the TBS cards would lock any transponder that was using ACM/VCM.  That exception was my TT3200, which would lock some DVBS2 QPSK transponders that were ACM/VCM {with a lot of errors}, but couldn't lock transponders that spent much time in 8PSK or higher.  My TEVII, PROF, Diamond 9000, Asbox Elite, and CS8100 wouldn't lock any ACM/VCM transponder. 
   I'll have to try a couple of them on this transponder.




EDIT: Just tried a couple:
Azbox   wouldn't lock
TT3200  wouldn't lock   {Edit2 this may be wrong. Haven't used this for a while... nothing locks.}
PROF 7500  locked, and worked as well as either of the two TBS cards?????????  I could tune both streams, and play music or the color bars channel.   Weird.


wejones

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wejones
.....

EDIT: Just tried a couple:
Azbox   wouldn't lock
TT3200  wouldn't lock   {Edit2 this may be wrong. Haven't used this for a while... nothing locks.}
PROF 7500  locked, and worked as well as either of the two TBS cards?????????  I could tune both streams, and play music or the color bars channel.   Weird.




More info on this.  I was running the PROF card via Crazyscan, streaming to TSREADER, and it occurred to me that Geezer was running directly via TSREADER, and when running directly via TSREADER, there isn't any control at all over the multi-stream function.
   So I tried a few other things. 
PROF 7500 direct to TSREADER, using streamreader source.    Locked, but errors, and playback very choppy.
TBS 6925 direct to TSREADER, using streamreader source.    Locked, but errors, and playback very choppy.
TBS 6925 direct to TSREADER, using TBS 6925 source.    Locked, but errors, and playback very choppy.

Both 6925 and PROF 7500 work fine when going through Crazyscan streaming to TSREADER.


So it looks like Geezer's card might work if he could stream to TSREADER.
It might be worth a try to get the Crazyscan in UDP mode, and stream to TSREADER2744 in UDPunicast mode.  I still haven't got that working automatically, but it does work if I start the UDP stream in Crazyscan, and then bring up that old TSREADER in the unicast source.

 

GeeZer

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Reply with quote  #70 
I'll give that a try.  What I did do is download that TS reader lite.  The one that the generous author gives you one minute of streaming time..lol.  Anyway, I can open it through CRAZYSCAN, but I was using the DVBBDSource and it would let me open it but still no stream control  I'll try UDP and see if that works.

wejones

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Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeZer
I'll give that a try.  What I did do is download that TS reader lite.  The one that the generous author gives you one minute of streaming time..lol.  Anyway, I can open it through CRAZYSCAN, but I was using the DVBBDSource and it would let me open it but still no stream control  I'll try UDP and see if that works.



With TSREADER LITE, the TCP source should be there, so you don't need UDP. 

But if you want more than 1 minute, try the following. 

In crazyscan select UDP instead of TCP.
Click the button to start streaming.
It will probably give you error messages.  If it opens TSREADER close it, you may even need to use Windows task manager, process manager to close it, but close it.
Now, go to the directory with TSREADER version 2744, and start it, holding the ctrl key down.
Select UDPunicast
IF it comes up with the wrong port number, you may have to "restart source", and it will give you a window to enter the proper port number.  Or it may bring that window up right away.

Here, I've automated that a bit with some batch files, but the above should at least verify that it will work or not.   It just worked for me, although there were a few errors along the way. Basically, as long as Crazyscan keeps giving that number count saying it's still streaming, you should be able to open up that old version of TSREADER manually.


EDIT: I mentioned that you may need to kill the process in the task manager.  That was necessary when the original attempt to stream came up with a failed to connect to socket error.  It would keep coming back with that error message, and I couldn't stop TSREADER.  It might help to have the task manager up and running in the processes tab, and quickly kill the tsreader process after clicking to clear that error message.  Otherwise sometimes it opens up yet another TSREADER window. 

I created a runtsr.cmd file in the tsreader 2744 directory, and the file has one line:
tsreader -s tsreader_udpunicast.dll 6968
or change the 6968 to 6969 or whatever port number you're using. 
This brings up tsreader quicker without needing to select a port number.


GeeZer

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Reply with quote  #72 
OK, haven't tried this before so a couple of questions

First, I'm using TS reader lite at the moment which is 2.8xx or something.  Are you using the older version and it's working?

Next when I select unicast in TS reader upon startup, the device number is greyed out on zero.  I guess I'll need to move the  prof card to that device slot.  

The Default unicast port select is 127, so that changers to 6968

I'll give it a try...


OK, I'm stumped on this one although it's probably something I'm doing really stupid...

I removed 2 of the three cards from the computer, a Hauppauge and a Technotrend3200, not touching the Prof.

Restarted the computer with only the one card in place.  Started crazyscan.

It draws the graph of G14/Vertical perfectly.   I click on the CrazyCat icon and it starts the constellation process with the 8 point figure. 

I hit stop and all fields on the bottom portion of the graph are greyed out.   The entire "blind scan" section.  If I hit blindscan it goes through and scans nothing.  I'll try rebooting the computer and see if that fixes it.



wejones

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeZer
OK, haven't tried this before so a couple of questions

First, I'm using TS reader lite at the moment which is 2.8xx or something.  Are you using the older version and it's working?

Next when I select unicast in TS reader upon startup, the device number is greyed out on zero.  I guess I'll need to move the  prof card to that device slot.  

The Default unicast port select is 127, so that changers to 6968

I'll give it a try...



First of all, I finally got it to work automatically with UDP and the old TSREADER.  But first you should probably verify that it works for you.  HOWEVER, the signal on that transponder has dropped over the past hour so I'm only getting about a 7.6 SNR now.  So I'm getting errors everywhere again now, and the music is cutting out even with the 6925 with the new TSREADER,.  So I can't tell what's working until the signal comes back up. 

Re TSREADER version I've been using, I'm using 2.8.47c.  I think the current version is 2.8.48, however I haven't upgraded to that yet.

Re the device number grayed out, that is normal, you're not using a device, you're grabbing a UDP stream.   Just hit the OK button.  I think that should bring up the window with the port number. 
ab4kn

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Reply with quote  #74 
Prof 7500 with EBSPro and VLC is playing Music Choice perfectly here today. SNR on 10 ft. dish is 13.8 db.

(Azbox Ultra is trying to lock it, but can't)- That poor box is getting very frustrated [confused]

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George
GeeZer

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Reply with quote  #75 
Well I got it working!  I couldn't figure out quickly how to change the port since that pop up window didn't appear in the old version.  I just set both to 127 and it took right off.  Like you I still have some errors, but it sometime plays for a while without an audible error.   Video looks great.  For a "poor mans" Music Choice, I'm rather satisfied... I'm not sure how if it's multicasting it doesn't have to have the correct card selected, but I'm happy anyway.

I'll try some fine tuning, but it's sounding pretty good right now...
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