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Callisto

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Reply with quote  #1 
I bought a couple of Star Choice LNBF's at an auction with the hopes of using them on my 3 foot dishes. Has anyone tried these? I noticed that Star Choice dishes have a different type of feed mount depending on the dish shape. So will this change the focal length for FTA. How about the LNB settings on a receiver- 10750, 10600 or something else & skew settings as well? They look brand new so fingers are crossed that they will work.
jmnet

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Reply with quote  #2 
If they are from the older dishes, like the quad output ones, I believe they are just regular KU LNBs.  I know for the new G1 satellite, it uses an extended type of LNB that's not in the 11.7 to 12.2 range.
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iggy57

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Posts: 317
Reply with quote  #3 
I have used the older KU  beer can type to tune in satellite 97 w .
Worked great .
I have not tried the newer oval ku and  xku type .
From what I can remember I set it at 10750.

Good luck with it .

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LinkBox 9000i ,AZB0X Premium HD+, Pansat 9200HD with DVB-S2 , SonicView 8000HD ,10 foot C/ku-Band Mesh  Dish, Star Track Eight Dish mover, One 20" Bell dish subbed ,  and a large stack of paper weights in the closet.
Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #4 
On the topic of Starchoice LNBFs, does anyone have or know where I could get an F1X Twin offset LNBF, that was sold by Kusat.com out of Canada, but apparently they sold out and are discontinued.
They are used on large offset dishes and have the correct L.O. frequencies for G1 and F1R to work with a Starchoice receiver.
(No, a generic universal LNBF will *not* work with a Starchoice receiver.)
Here is a picture:

[0850]
bluzee

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Posts: 2,373
Reply with quote  #5 
I don't know of any generic available. My wholesaler only carries Shaw XKU. The generics are standard Ku or Universal.     Might have to make a custom mount to fit a shaw xku lnbf.
Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Might have to make a custom mount to fit a shaw xku lnbf.


The problem with that is it won't fully illuminate the dish, because they are designed for oval Starchoice dishes,
and I need every drop of C/N I can get to lock Anik G1 in FL.
It might be possible to cut up a Starchoice LNBF and weld it to a standard feedhorn.
Much easier to just use one of those F1X twins pictured above, if I could only find one.
Thanks.
fenelon

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Reply with quote  #7 
You can find a triple on Kijiji ontario .ca think you line 1 up and the rest fall in place like a Direct 3 eye.
Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
You can find a triple on Kijiji ontario .ca think you line 1 up and the rest fall in place like a Direct 3 eye.


Thanks, but - again, a Shaw LNBF will **not** work correctly on a large offset dish. Not the xku, and especially not the triple.
Those are designed for oval dishes, and for areas *inside* the Anik G1 footprint.
I am well outside the footprint for G1, so I need a very large offset dish and I need one of those special F1X LNBFs - it's a custom design exactly for my intended use.
So, if anyone has one of those F1X LNBFs that they would sell, or know where I could get one, then that would be appreciated.

Jean

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Reply with quote  #9 
Try a Norsat 4508C. Work great on Anik G1. F1 satellite

https://www.shawbroadcast.com/Content/English/AnikG1.htm
===============================================
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Kurtz
On the topic of Starchoice LNBFs, does anyone have or know where I could get an F1X Twin offset LNBF, that was sold by Kusat.com out of Canada, but apparently they sold out and are discontinued.
They are used on large offset dishes and have the correct L.O. frequencies for G1 and F1R to work with a Starchoice receiver.
(No, a generic universal LNBF will *not* work with a Starchoice receiver.)
Here is a picture:

[0850]
bluzee

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Posts: 2,373
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Kurtz


Thanks, but - again, a Shaw LNBF will **not** work correctly on a large offset dish. Not the xku, and especially not the triple.
Those are designed for oval dishes, and for areas *inside* the Anik G1 footprint.
I am well outside the footprint for G1, so I need a very large offset dish and I need one of those special F1X LNBFs - it's a custom design exactly for my intended use.
So, if anyone has one of those F1X LNBFs that they would sell, or know where I could get one, then that would be appreciated.



Again, can't think of any other option for offset dish.  Keep an eye on ebay I guess.

Why must you use an offset dish? 

Is it even possible to receive G1 in FL?
Jean

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Posts: 205
Reply with quote  #11 

Anik G1 zone:

https://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=7527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluzee


Again, can't think of any other option for offset dish.  Keep an eye on ebay I guess.

Why must you use an offset dish? 

Is it even possible to receive G1 in FL?

bluzee

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Posts: 2,373
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean

Anik G1 zone:

https://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=7527

--------------------------------------------------------------



Yes, which is why I posed the question is it even possible to receive G1 in FL.   FL is Florida right? 
majortom

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callisto
I bought a couple of Star Choice LNBF's at an auction with the hopes of using them on my 3 foot dishes. Has anyone tried these?

Post some pictures of what you have so people know what it is that your dealing with.
I think Star Choice / Shaw has been around for many years and has had numerous types of feeds/antennas over the years.


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Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Why must you use an offset dish? 

Is it even possible to receive G1 in FL?


Yes! I noticed the G1 transponders were clearly visible on the spectrum analyzer when peaking my 1.5m
prime focus solid dish (with a universal LNBF) for Anik F1R here in FL. The G1 signals are significantly weaker than the F1R signals, but clearly there.
I verified that the signals were in fact G1 using an Applied Instruments XR-3 meter with the Turbo S2 Satellite Module.
The C/N level is right at the threshold for a lock - around 9dB - and the "lock" is therefore very unstable - it locks for a fraction of a second, then loses lock for a moment, then regains lock, etc. Some transponders were slightly stronger than others, and thus stayed locked for a higher percentage of time. The parameters reported by the XR-3 correctly matched the parameters reported for the transponders on Lyngsat.

Therefore, having verified that I am indeed receiving G1, and that the signal level on a 1.5m dish is insufficient for a stable lock, then next largest dish option that I have is a 1.8m offset dish.

Again, a universal LNBF can be used with the XR-3 to verify the signal parameters, lock status, and C/N level - but unfortunately cannot be used AFAIK with a Strachoice receiver because the L.O. frequency (9.75GHz) doesn't match the L.O. frequency in a Starchoice LNBF (10.00GHz, apparently), so the downconversion for the channel mapping in the receiver will be all wrong (i.e., off by 250MHz for each G1 transponder), so the Starchoice receiver won't be able to "see" the signals because it will be looking for them in the wrong places (frequencies).

Jean - thank you very much for the links with the invaluable information. Yes, it looks like the Norsat 4508C LNB (with L.O.=10.00GHz) would indeed work correctly with a Starchoice receiver for receiving G1, but its published upper cutoff is 11.70GHz, so the problem then becomes integrating it into a system that also get Anik F1R
and F2 Ku and also works correctly and seemlessly with a Starchoice receiver.
(Receiving F1R and F2 Ku in FL isn't a problem - both have strong signals here.)

Starchoice uses the 22KHz tone to select between G1/F1R and F2, but how do they select between G1 and F1R? Do they even use two separate L.O.s for G1 and F1R (10.00 and 10.75GHz) or do they simply use one extended-range LNBF with L.O.=10.00GHz, but with an upper limit at 12.20GHz to also cover F1R Ku???

I strongly suspect that the latter is the case, and an unmodified Norsat 4508C will get you G1 but not F1R, and there will be no easy way to extend the upper range of the 4508C to also cover F1R without some non-trivial modifications. Considering that you would need two modified 4508Cs - one for each polarity - plus an orthogonal feed, plus a 13V/18V switch to select between them - then you have a task that is harder and more expensive than modding an xKu LNBF by cutting off its feedhorn and welding a C120 mounting plate in its place so it can be used with the proper feedhorn for the 1.8m dish. And again, perhaps easier and much cheaper to just find someone with a surplus F1X Twin for sale.

pendragon

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Reply with quote  #15 
I can offer some notes on receiving G1 in the lower 'provinces' (I'm in CO). We have a Shaw subscription and a number of the channels we watch are only on G1.

I tried several F1X LNBFs as-is on a commercial grade 1.8m offset and a very high accuracy 2.6m solid prime modified to use an Invacom ADF-120 feed (C120 plate). Both dishes are very well shielded from the US TI that can exist at G1 frequencies. I can see the TI on a spectrum analyzer, particularly with other dishes that are not as well shielded. The phase noise of the F1X LNBFs isn't great and many of the G1 TPs are run with a 8/9 FEC. That's already tough. Using the 'best' sample of the F1Xs I had, I could continuously lock a few G1 TPs on the 1.8m and most on the 2.6m during testing. But beware. As G1 wanders in its box, Telesat apparently adjusts either the G1 pointing and/or its output power, perhaps to keep its radiation south of the border under some agreed upon threshold. This could also be accentuated by sidelobe movement when not receiving on the main beam. The result is I see CNR variations of 3-5 dB over a day for the G1 TPs, while those picked up on the same LNBF from F1R TPs vary minimally. Thus nailing a lock during tweaking is a zero guarantee that you can lock at anytime you want. Not going to happen.

In FL, I expect this would be even worse. If you have any US TI, all bets will be off. I am very skeptical of portable meters when they say they are locked or show a low BER. Most I have tested claim locks that defy the laws of physics. Perhaps they are only reporting a carrier or symbol rate lock. The real test is whether the TS packets are reliable.

Getting G1 was an obsession with me, so I bought several Shaw 'triple satellite' LNBFs (really only dual LNBFs with an internal multiswitch). I modified the one for 107.3W to accept a C120 plate so I could attach an ADF-120 feed, and ignored the LNBF for 111.1W as it would not be spaced correctly on my 2.6m dish. To make room for another LNB on 111.1W, I rotated the Shaw unit 90 degrees and tricked my multiswitch to flip the polarizations. The two Shaw units were much better than the F1X LNBF, but one was clearly better in terms of CNR consistency across H & V.  

This nearly got me there, but several of the lower CNR G1 TPs were slightly short of lock for a couple of hours a day. This is with a supremely aligned dish and a custom support for the LNBs that I designed and constructed to have better than 1mm positional adjustability and repeatability in all three dimensions. I set the basic alignment with a top end surveying theodolite, and then tweaked the alignment to better than 0.1 dB, averaged over all G1 TPs (both H & V).

This still wasn't enough. I figured I could just get G1's orbital elements and optimize my dish pointing for center of box. But Telesat doesn't publish any of this, and their center of box timespans aren't particularly helpful because they only map the closest approaches to center of box, which for some periods of time are quite far away. I looked into orbital elements available in the public domain by the space junk trackers, but these proved to be of horrible accuracy and useless for knowing where the bird actually is in its box. So I automated the process and tracked it myself using a 'laser' beam 3.5m dish. This was only roughly accurate, but at least I could correlate the daily CNR variations to my estimate of where G1 was within its box. I then was able to point the 2.6m to maximize CNR when Telesat was setting the effective received power south of the border to its minimum. I had feared I might need dual axis tracking to get enough CNR, but fortunately my HH motor was sufficient. It's only fair to note that this uses a rotary encoder to track its position, rather than a typical magnet wheel/reed switch. It can be set to within a resolution of 0.016 degrees, and that is about what I need for G1.

With this I can pretty much lock all G1 TPs 24/7 in decent weather. My margin at the worst case each day is not a lot. When Telesat performs a box maneuver, I pretty much know and sometimes have to readjust the HH motor for an optimal position over a 24 hour period. I have communicated with a number of folks who have also tried to get G1 well south of the border. I used to invest a fair amount of time helping them squeak the most out of their setups. No one I know was ever able to reliably lock G1 south of me. Even many north of me. For the size of dishes I'm using, I'm completely on the edge. Of course one could turn up the gain and use a 3.7m dish, or larger, but I would be VERY surprised if you are able to get continuous and reliable reception in FL. It's a fun and challenging project, but if you see it to the end you will likely invest a lot of time against a low probability of success. Good luck, but you have been forewarned.
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