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boomer_106

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkin
my digital esr meter is a cheap atmega based ebay purchase.
ive also built this analog meter https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/5-transistor-esr-meter-design/

check it out..
1.png 


That's pretty cool. How much did it cost to build that ESR?

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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
boomer_106

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkin
here is a BOM..total cost was about $8
capacitorquantitymanufacturer part#digikey part#
c1011UCS2G820MHD493-14941-ND
c105, c1062EEU-FC1H220P10318-ND
c204150YXJ1M5X111189-1421-ND
c2031EEU-FC1H100LBP19649CT-ND
c2131EEU-FC1V331P10299-ND
c2091EEU-FC1E331P10272-ND
c201, c202, c206, c2074UPW1A152MPD493-1749-ND
c2101UPW1E101MED493-1820-ND
c2141UFW1V101MED493-15156-ND
c205, c2082UFW1A471MED493-15118-ND


This list may be very helpful to others with an Azbox. I need to keep a copy of that.

Thank you very much for the repair Merkin. Let me know your labor charges and I'll fix you up.

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10 ft mesh BUD. Uniden Supra analog c/ku,  Azbox Elite, Azbox Premium Plus, Chaparral co-rotor 2, Astrotel Precision Model PMJ-LNB (C) 15 K noise. Eagle Aspen 770 KU O.6 DB LNB, Venture Ball Screw MA818-B24 (Pansat 9200 HD, pretty much retired)
merkin

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Reply with quote  #48 
@boomer_106
i dont remember the cost..most of the parts were salvaged.  i could put together a BOM.  my guess is around $15-20.
been watching tv with your tuner and psu for the last couple days without a hiccup.  i think its time to send back..nothing more i can do at this point.  i ship it tomorrow. 
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #49 
That is awesome work merkin!
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Pops

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Reply with quote  #50 
Way to go, Merkin!  
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jdcpa

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkin
here is a BOM..total cost was about $8
capacitorquantitymanufacturer part#digikey part#
c1011UCS2G820MHD493-14941-ND
c105, c1062EEU-FC1H220P10318-ND
c204150YXJ1M5X111189-1421-ND
c2031EEU-FC1H100LBP19649CT-ND
c2131EEU-FC1V331P10299-ND
c2091EEU-FC1E331P10272-ND
c201, c202, c206, c2074UPW1A152MPD493-1749-ND
c2101UPW1E101MED493-1820-ND
c2141UFW1V101MED493-15156-ND
c205, c2082UFW1A471MED493-15118-ND

I won't try to deny merkin the success he achieved, but I'd like to see improvement in the template that others might use in the future to attempt self-repair.

So, someone please test those caps that were replaced. It is uncommon for 5x11 or smaller, small uF value caps to create a failure like that observed here. Each cap replaced represents on opportunity for a soldering novice to make a devastating hidden mistake. These irreplaceable AZBoxen are computers, which probably are spec'd to use mostly caps not generally described as "general purpose", "audio" or "automotive", as are the Digi-Key selections made by merkin. All are described as automotive (4), audio (2) or general purpose (the rest). The right way to choose optimal replacements is to look up the specifications of the originals and match or exceed them. I have to think at least some of those replaced would have been described as "low ESR" or "low impedence". I could be wrong in my estimation of original types, but I do wonder how long the chosen replacements can be expected to last, and whether any possible deviation in type between original and replacement selection might lead to premature failure of either replacement, or worse, some other component.

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majortom

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Reply with quote  #52 
I don't have any azbox model so there is nothing for me to gain here but I have no problem contributing where I can..
Agree that a soldering novice should not be poking around inside their electronic equipment.
Go play with something else you don't care about if your goal is to learn how to solder...
Like rainbow kits or something... https://www.rainbowkits.com/cat-kits-409.pdf
Then try...

I took merkin's list and added the short description along with unit cost from digikey.
Is that what you are looking for? If not, feel free to add on to the attached text file yourself.

When I am working on an antique radio, I don't waste my time trying to test 70+ year old electrolytic and wax paper capacitors. I know they are all bad already, they are 70 years old! Even if New parts are sitting on a shelf in the original packaging, for 70 years never used, it is bad today.

If working on something newer, and I am coming across bad E caps, I might replace all
of the ones used elsewhere that are of the same or questionable Manufacturer.
A novice is not going to be able to make that judgement call on their own, because they aren't going to have any experience anyway.
For example when fixing the OpenboxS9 power supply way back, I replaced every E cap on the power supply because they were all made by the same mfr which I had never heard of. Only 1 capacitor was actually bad at the time. It's a personal choice.

I am guessing the components with 100 series designators were on the power supply,
and those with 200 series designators were on the main board? yes or no??

Code:

capacitor  description            quantity  manufacturer part#  digikey part#    $ ea
c101    CAP ALUM 82UF 20% 400V RADIAL     1      UCS2G820MHD      493-14941-ND  $2.12
c105, c106  CAP ALUM 22UF 20% 50V RADIAL     2      EEU-FC1H220      P10318-ND    $.29
c204    CAP ALUM 1UF 20% 50V RADIAL     1      50YXJ1M5X11      1189-1421-ND  0.26
c203    CAP ALUM 10UF 20% 50V RADIAL     1      EEU-FC1H100LB    P19649CT-ND    0.35
c213    CAP ALUM 330UF 20% 35V RADIAL    1      EEU-FC1V331      P10299-ND    0.63
c209    CAP ALUM 330UF 20% 25V RADIAL     1      EEU-FC1E331      P10272-ND    0.48
c201, c202, 
c206, c207  CAP ALUM 1500UF 20% 10V RADIAL     4      UPW1A152MPD      493-1749-ND    0.65
c210    CAP ALUM 100UF 20% 25V RADIAL     1      UPW1E101MED      493-1820-ND    0.34
c214    CAP ALUM 100UF 20% 35V RADIAL     1      UFW1V101MED      493-15156-ND  0.26
c205, c208  CAP ALUM 470UF 20% 10V RADIAL     2      UFW1A471MED      493-15118-ND  0.26
EEU series Panasonic
UCS, UPW, UFW series Nichicon
50Y series Rubycon

 
Attached Files
txt azelite_caps_merkin.txt (908 Bytes, 7 views)


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merkin

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Reply with quote  #53 

@jdpca
i am having a hard time gauging what you are looking for. you either know what you are talking about or you dont.
if you know..i provided all the information needed to look up datasheets for the new parts and old parts. so by all means do us all a favor and compare the two.
if you dont know..then dont be that guy. [wink]

i admitted that my esr meter is a cheap ebay purchase. if its giving faulty readings it would not surprise me. i am a hobbyist, not an EE.
i can tell you that when looking for replacements i tried going with a good manufacturer with the same or higher ripple and same or less esr and also the same volts and capacitance.
its no secret that samwha are crap..g-luxon are also crap..and panasonic, nichicon and rubycon all have a solid reputation, but any cap can fail at anytime regardless of manufacturer and specs.

i will echo what @majortom said..if you can replace one cap then you should be able to replace 100. if you cant then go practice. i have a desoldering tool which makes childs play out of removing through-hole components on a single-sided pcb. if you want to here difficult try desoldering the 56pin tsop flash on the azbox elite so you can externally program it because the bootloader got corrupted and the ejtag bus for some reason doesnt function on the elite models (although it does on ultra/premium/premium+ models) and then try resoldering it after programming externally. i can say i have been there and done that. can you?

@majortom
only psu caps were replaced. i am pretty sure the 100's were on the hv side and 200 were on the lv side.

jdcpa

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
I took merkin's list and added the short description along with unit cost from digikey.
Is that what you are looking for?

No.
Quote:
If not, feel free to add on to the attached text file yourself.

No one has provided the info necessary to do so.

All but the worst junk caps printed on them along with date code, uF and voltage have a series designation, such as those merkin attached in a format a web browser inexplicably refuses to itself open:
Code:
EEU series Panasonic
UCS, UPW, UFW series Nichicon
50Y series Rubycon

What's missing is the series of those replaced, without which ripple, lifetime rating and other specifications, or significance of the series designation, can't be looked up.
Code:
Panasonic FC = low impedance 
Nichicon FW = audio
Nichicon PW = low impedance, high quality for switching power supplies
Nichicon CS = high ripple, high reliability
Rubycon YXJ = long life, low impedance

Other than the FW, these are likely to have been my own choices if I was doing the work, and the specifications of the originals were not discoverable.

When I wrote "general purpose" in comment 51 I was copying from the Digi-Key page descriptions, not from manufacturers' specifications pages. Such descriptive mismatches are among the reasons I prefer to buy from Mouser rather than Digi-Key, which doesn't describe low impedance or low ESR caps as "general purpose".

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merkin

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Reply with quote  #55 

Screen Shot 2017-04-19 at 4.45.20 PM.png 


G-LUXON SM series
http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/G-Luxon/G-Luxon%20%5bradial%20thru-hole%5d%20SM%20Series.pdf

SAMWHA RD series
http://www.samwha.com/electric/product/list_pdf2/RD.pdf

SAMWHA WB series
http://biakom.com/pdf/WB_capacit_samwha.pdf

SAMYOUNG KMG series
https://www.samyoung.co.kr/download/miniature/KMG.pdf

i hope this helps you sleep easy tonight.



jdcpa

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Reply with quote  #56 
Replacement should be similar or lower value for impedance and similar or higher value for ripple. The Samwha WB product is described as "ultra low impedance", and shown to be a low reliability product on badcaps.net. Best as I can read the spec sheets, C201, C202, C206, C207 and C213 replacements all fail both equivalencies.

Code:
Samwha WB: 10x16; 330uF; 35v; impedance .038; ripple 1430 = original
Panasonic FC: 10x16 330uF 35v;  impedance .068; ripple  682 = now installed
Panasonic FM: 10x16 330uF 35v;  impedance .026; ripple 1790 = a "low impedance" and ripple match

Samwha WB: 10x20; 1500uF; 10v; impedance .027; ripple 1820 = original
Nichicon PW; 10x20; 1500uF; 10v; impedance .052; ripple 1037 = now installed

I found no "low impedance" 1500uF 10v match available from Mouser or Digi-Key except in can size 10x16, 10x25 or 10x27. If it would fit I would probably have chosen Panasonic FM 10x25. If 25mm would not fit then I would use Nichicon HV 10x16. I did not check other than the WBs.

With 5 caps replaced with below-spec components I would not expect this repair to have a long life, but I don't expect my sleep tonight to be any different than usual.

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merkin

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Reply with quote  #57 
real world vs specs..i live in the real world, where do you live?  WB's are crap as you showed in the badcaps link.  time will tell all so why speculate?

cool, when you jump to the plate to help the next person you can use whatever you wish.  plenty of head room in there..25mm height is not an issue, but a larger diameter might be.
EmilNJ

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Reply with quote  #58 
Great Job merkin.  Don't listen to the negativity as there are always some people who's glass is half empty and not half full.  

Emil

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jdcpa

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkin
real world vs specs..i live in the real world, where do you live?

Same place.
Quote:
time will tell all so why speculate?

I live in the real world. I imagine so does boomer. The reason why I wrote recent posts in this thread was to keep expectations realistic. Under-spec replacements cannot be expected to have normal lives. It works now, so fine. But, for how long, and worse, might out-of-spec replacements have side effects not so easily, or at all, corrected, on an irreplaceable AZBox?

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Hurricanes Hermine and Irma 28N paths. C Norsats: 8115 on Corotor II on 10' mesh; 5215G5 X2 on Bullseye I on 12' mesh.
jdcpa

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmilNJ
Great Job merkin.

Time will tell.

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