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Alan

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Was looking for some guidance from the knowledgeable group of contributors here about a situation I'm having with my motorized KU band set-up.  First, some background.  I have a 36" Fortec Star satellite dish and, until yesterday, a Stab HH90 motor.  The problem has centered around a fairly significant drop in overall signal quality, which, at first, I thought may have been caused by some recent high winds.  In any event, I initially did some troubleshooting by physically inspecting my dish, checking the mast for plumbness, confirming the dish and motor elevation were correct, testing the LNBF (I have an Invacom Universal Single Ku 0.3 dB LNBF model SNH-031) and tightening any loose connections (coax and/or bolts).  What I, along with a local guy I've used before to refine my satellite system, found was that the plumbness was off marginally (we immediately corrected that), but more "seriously" there appeared to be some slippage with the motor.  So, my local satellite expert built a better support bracket for the motor/dish (saw it yesterday first hand and it really makes the dish much more stable) and also brought over this motor:  SG6000 (http://sg6000.com/docs/SG6000%20Manual.pdf).  I Googled to find this manual because there was NOTHING included in the box.  Anyway, according to this site:  http://www.satcalculator.co.cc/, at my location (Longitude of 121.9W and Latitude of 37.7N), the motor elevation should be set somewhere between 52-53 and the dish elevation should be set at 34.  And I must say that the bracket that came with the motor is very confusing from the standpoint that it reads Latitude on one side and Elevation on the other.  We used the side marked Elevation for the settings.  At some point yesterday, we were able to get a lock on one of the (few) channels on Galaxy 18 at 123W (my True South satellite), but "it just didn't look right" in terms of where the dish was aimed and the actual elevation of the dish, relative to where I remembered 123W being when my system was "working" using the Stab motor.  Any advice/help you can offer?  Thank you.

Alan

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Reply with quote  #2 
Surprised nobody had any suggestions!

Here's what my local satellite tech had to say:
"The scale set at 53 w/ a difference of 5.897 and the antenna aiming 18 degress off of magnetic heading truth, we should be able to peak 123 bird for best signal level and track the arc. So, the motor is set to 53 degrees and the dish is 47.10 according to the info I have."

Does this seem accurate?
RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #3 
Sorry Alan.

I have not sold or installed a STAB in a while and don't remember the angles on it.  I know with the SG2100, you set the motor bracket to an angle to match your latitude setting and then the dish elevation is around 23 to 24 degrees.

But from what I was remembering, the STAB is quite a bit different on the Dish Elevation angle from the Moteck.

Just have not had the time to get out to a box and read the angle settings on the STAB again yet.

Maybe someone who has recently installed a STAB will respond now.

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Alan

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Reply with quote  #4 
No longer using the STAB motor. I'm talking about the SG6000.
starman345

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Your latitude is 37 so it sounds like you have it set right if the elevation side is 53. The dish elevation sounds like it is too high. I haven't any experience with an SG6000 but have used many SG-2100 motors and the shaft coming out of the motor is set at 30 degrees, I'm assuming your model is the same but maybe not? I'm at 45 degrees latitude, to set dish elevation I take 6 degrees from 30 degrees(angle of shaft) so my final dish elevation is 24 degrees at my location, yours will be a bit higher as you are closer to the equator. Also, something to watch for, some of the elevation scales on dishes are not accurate, some off by several degrees so don't go soley by the scale.


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sat_action

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Reply with quote  #6 
Your motor elevation is your latitude...set on the scale on motor mount and the dish elevation is 40°-declination angle (5.966 for lat 38) = 34° ...set on the scale on the dish.


t134aa

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Reply with quote  #7 
I agree that the elevation scale on the SG2100/SG6000 can be quite confusing. The way it works is that if you set your latitude then the other side displays the elevation from the book/chart. Of course if you are looking at the wrong side it gets set all wrong, unless you are located about where I am, 45 degrees, then they read the same LOL.

As previously stated elevation scales on the dishes themselves are normally off by a good margin, that is if they are worth anything at all. But really the #1 issue that I see with either the STAB or SG series is polar alignment being incorrect. You can use pointing sites with Google maps and compasses and magnetic corrections all you want and still not get polar alignment right.

I cam up with a procedure for those having difficulties. Other than knowing roughly where due south is it doesn't require much else. Here are the basics:

Replace your linear LNB with a DBS circular LNB. Use USALS controls in your receiver to drive the motor to one of the DBS birds, 82W, 91W, 110W, 119W, 129W. Check the scale on the motor, do the quick math and ensure that your motor is moving the correct number of degrees off the zero for the sat chosen. If it is then time to play. Make sure your receiver is set to an ACTIVE transponder on the DBS bird chosen. Loosen the motor to mast bolts enough so you can rotate the motor on its mast but not so loose that it drops. Physically move the motor on the mast to where you think due south is, don't worry about being exact. Do not tighten down. Next play with the dish elevation (declination.) Set it low to start. Grab the motor and physically rotate it on the mast, sweeping the area where you think due south is. Watch the receiver for Quality the entire time. If nothing, set the dish elevation/declination up a hair and repeat. It won't take long to lock a DBS bird with a 36" dish. Once you do, play with the motor position/polar alignment and dish elevation to maximize quality. Then have the receiver USALS drive the motor to the next DBS bird. Repeat playing with motor & dish to maximize quality. Do this on 4 or 5 DBS birds and both your polar alignment and dish elevation should be good. Replace circular LNB with your linear. Drive the motor to various linear birds and make slight tweeks for maximum Q, ensuring you are using active TP's on each linear bird. End result is that you will end up dead on the you know what in little time.

Finally setup your controls for 1.2 of leave USALS if you want, scan your birds, watch TV.


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HOTDISH90/Spitfire Elite LNB/SG6000 feeding Azbox Premium HD+ >OpenBox S9 > Prof 7500 > Traxis 4000. DMS scalar w/BSC621-2D, BSC421 & 422 for C-band on small dish experiments. Yes, it does work!
starman345

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Reply with quote  #8 
In the SG6000 manual it says 40 degrees-declination so the shaft is different than the SG-2100 models which are 30 degrees. As Sat Action has stated, 34 should get you in the ball park.
t134aa gives good advice about using a circular lnb to setup your dish. I almost always do it that way. It is so much easier to find those high powered dbs birds and adjust the dish to the arc. Of course if you don't have a circular lnb aligning the dish can still be done, it just takes a bit longer.

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TBS 8922 PCI
TBS 6925 PCI-E
Alan

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Reply with quote  #9 
I posted my installer with the information everyone here provided (thank you very much!) and this is what he came back with:

"I managed to get the manual on the SG6000. We could have set the arc if we would have followed through with info in it. The elevation on the bracket should be set to 53 and the elevation on the antenna to 23 or 24. True south bird is 110."

I am totally confused on several fronts. First, I have always known my TSS as being the bird closest to my Longitude (121.9) which would be 123W. Second, we tried the settings already (53 in the motor and 23 or 24 on the dish) and it didn't work (plus the dish looked WAY too high). Last, everyone here has suggested setting the motor to 38 (my Latitude) and the motor around 34 while the motor manual says 53 for the motor and 23-24 for the dish. What do I do?
starman345

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Reply with quote  #10 
Your longitude and true south satellite are one and the same,  so you are correct in trying to find 123 or 121, I think your installer is confused. If you have a circular lnb try for 119. A rule of thumb on most satellite forums is to set your latitude on the latitude side of the motor bracket, then play with the dish elevation to find a signal. Those brackets with elevation on one side and latitude on the other are a source of confusion for lots of people.
If you dont' have a circular lnb, try for the PBS channels on 125W. It is better to stay away from the influence of the powerful dbs bird at 119, it can have an affect on a signal meter even if you are a few degrees away from it.
the 12180 transponder is quite strong for me, Montana also.

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TBS 6925 PCI-E
t134aa

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I posted my installer with the information everyone here provided (thank you very much!) and this is what he came back with:

"I managed to get the manual on the SG6000. We could have set the arc if we would have followed through with info in it. The elevation on the bracket should be set to 53 and the elevation on the antenna to 23 or 24. True south bird is 110."

I am totally confused on several fronts. First, I have always known my TSS as being the bird closest to my Longitude (121.9) which would be 123W. Second, we tried the settings already (53 in the motor and 23 or 24 on the dish) and it didn't work (plus the dish looked WAY too high). Last, everyone here has suggested setting the motor to 38 (my Latitude) and the motor around 34 while the motor manual says 53 for the motor and 23-24 for the dish. What do I do?


Starman has it all right. I wish they would get rid of that darn duel scale for motor elevation, I admit I've even gotten confused on it.

A little secret: the site you originally quoted with the SG2100/SG6000 chart is my site. I verified with a calculator and the SG6000 manual that the numbers for you are correct. But as I and others have said scales on dishes are normally so worthless that the numbers don't matter for the dish/declination, you have to "feel" it.

I will come out and say it, your installer does not know what he is talking about, longitude and true south satellite will always be one in the same. Of course there is no 121.9 bird and you are right in the middle, which actually could cause you to throw your system off a degree, but even so you could compensate and it should work on stronger birds whether you use 121 or 123 to center in on. This is another reason why I highly recommend the DBS satellite alignment procedure, it doesn't care what your center bird is since it lines you up using multiple birds. If you don't have the circular LNB/can't get one you can still use a variation of the process with a linear LNB. Have USALS move to a strong linear bird and set a strong TP, 125 was suggested by starman. Home in on PBS Montana. Or pick another strong bird/tp. Use it to tweek and peak your signal.

Lastly, forget what the dish "looks like" when it is set. My digiwave 1 meter looks like it is aimed at the ground when it is on the center satellite. My HOTDISH90 looks like its aimed at Polaris. My Starband/Primestar looks like its out in deep space, all when aimed at the same bird. Look angles/reflections are very deceiving, especially on a motor, you could end up "pointing at the ground" or in "deep space" depending on a few factors.

Some additional advice:

If you are trying to do this with a cheapie SF-95 or other basic signal meter, throw it in the garbage. Short of a quality $200+ meter these things are gonna read high or low whether you are aimed at the sat you want, another sat, or a brick wall. Without buying a quality meter or EasyFind your best bet is to drag your receiver and a small TV out to the dish. Play with polar alignment, declination and even motor elevation if you have to until you find the bird you are looking for. And of course, very important with linear, make sure you are set to look for an active transponder on the bird. Many have spent all day looking for say 123W with their receiver set to a transponder that is dead.

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HOTDISH90/Spitfire Elite LNB/SG6000 feeding Azbox Premium HD+ >OpenBox S9 > Prof 7500 > Traxis 4000. DMS scalar w/BSC621-2D, BSC421 & 422 for C-band on small dish experiments. Yes, it does work!
Alan

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Reply with quote  #12 
So, to clarify, set the motor elevation at 52-53 OR 38 and then toy with the dish elevation?
gammatest

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Reply with quote  #13 
I have a paper copy of the book for the SG6000 and all your numbers are correct. I used the latitude value when setting up my motor and it worked fine.

Take t134aa's advice and save yourself a lot of hassle. Drag a TV and receiver outside and lock your true south bird and peak a hot TP with the quality meter. For me 12140 or 12180 are the best on 125W, I don't get a peep out of the TV Montana TP at 11958H.

Then (using diseqc commands) swing your dish towards an eastern bird (like 74W Ohio News Now TP), if you get signal there you should have everything in between.

It takes about an hour or so to get it perfect... in the winter -- good luck.

With that said... you will love this motor. Yesterday there was ice all over my mast/motor and as I moved the motor from 72w to 125w all the ice started cracking and the motor was moving solidly - it has power.
Alan

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Reply with quote  #14 
As described above, using a motor is not new to me; just the SG6000 is.
Alan

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Reply with quote  #15 

Okay, so nothing seemed to work with the SG-6000 motor (tried different motor elevations of 38 and 53 and set the dish in a range of 24-30 something).  No luck...no signal...no nothing.  Quite honestly, I found the markings on the SG's motor mast to be nearly impossibly to set precisely.  In any event, we put the Stab HH90 motor back on...set the motor elevation to 38 and dish elevation to 39...and we got a signal!  We ended up peaking the dish across the arc.  Things were great until, all of a sudden, the motor stopped working!  Couldn't believe it!  There's no reset button on the Stab HH90, so, per the manual, unplugged the receiver (even reset it), but the motor STILL won't move!  Any advice/help?  Thanks in advance.

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Fellow Members, your posts are welcome here! Do not worry about posting everything perfect. Different receivers and LNB's will give you different Frequencies and Symbol Rates. Some set top boxes, PCI cards and USB receivers, Do Not Require all of the same information that others may need. It is not Required to post everything that others may need to tune in a feed. It is just most important to share the find. We can always adjust the Frequency and Symbol Rates and try the various Modulations and FEC's on our own receivers until we get a lock and then give a polite reply with what works for your receiver, as that information might help others as well. We all appreciate the efforts and energy of the Posters!

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