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virginiap20007

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Reply with quote  #1 
I get a very strong sig. on 3744 H 741 on my Manhattan[will scan down to 500sr]  This may have been discused before and I missed it.  Nothing scans in so, it is probably just a beacon sig.  Jess out in California
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wejones

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Reply with quote  #2 
I think this transponder may have been discussed before, but I'm not sure.  I just tuned it in, and I scan in several audio channels, only 3 of which are currently active.  The NIT ID's it as Minnesoto Public Radio... now I remember that yes, there has been a discussion of this.
   Problem is, even though TSREADER shows audio is there on 3 channels, #3,4 and 5,  I can't seem to get them to play via VLC for some reason.  This problem is familiar too, but I forget what the trick is.  


EDIT:  BTW, channels are:

PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 2 Wxinsert
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 3 Classical
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 4 News
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 5 Current
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 7 News Stream
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 8 Sunfade_test
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 9 Sunfade_test2
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 10 Sunfade_Test3
PMT PID 128 (0x0080) - Program 12 CRNT ID test 2

NIT info is:
Minnesota Public Radio ƒ10.200.2.10
10.200.2.11 “2http://10.200.2.12/audio
http://10.200.2.13/audio


EDIT2:  Also, forgot to mention.  It wouldn't have been a beacon.  Sat beacons are generally in the first couple MHz or last couple MHz of the band.  Satbeams list the G16 beacons at 4196, 4197, which actually is a bit unusual, since that's within the upper transponder.  But I don't think beacons are usually modulated, ie wouldn't have an SR.  I think they are just plain carriers, but I'm not positive.


Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #3 

That signal is listed on Lyngsat.

http://www.lyngsat.com/Galaxy-16.html
wejones

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Reply with quote  #4 
I found a previous thread about this, from about 2 months ago.  Apparently I had the same problem re not being able to play it with VLC then.  Also tried some other receivers, but found that it played fine with my Raspberry Pi.  Never did figure out why it wouldn't play with VLC.
   So today, I just tried with SMPLAYER, and that works fine.  Strange that VLC won't play it.  I even tried recording it, and playing back the recording, but it still wouldn't play.  There's probably some VLC setting that I could change, but it's easier to just use SMPLAYER.

These audio streams are regular mpeg audio, but they have a 263 Kbps bitrate, which is fairly high for mpeg.  Most of the mpeg audio I've seen has been around 167 Kbps.
  Two of the 3 channels show up in TSREADER as being "stereo", while the 3rd channel comes up as being "dual channel".  Not sure exactly what this implies.  SMPLAYER lets you select either the right or left channel, and it seems that on this dual channel feed (the channel 4 news channel), there is only audio on the left side. 
agus0103

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Reply with quote  #5 
The Minnesota Public Radio News channel is ordinarily broadcast on the radio in mono. However, for some programming - most notably, A Prairie Home Companion - stereo carriers are temporarily switched on so that programming can be broadcast in stereo. That might account for what you're hearing with the audio on the news channel.

A Prairie Home Companion will air on the news channel today (Saturday) at 5 PM Central and tomorrow at 11 AM Central. You may want to tune in at either of those times to see if the audio is any different. Note also that the Saturday airing of the program is simulcast on the classical channel, so at 5 PM Central today on the radio, both the news and classical channel will be airing A Prairie Home Companion.
wejones

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wejones
I found a previous thread about this, from about 2 months ago.  Apparently I had the same problem re not being able to play it with VLC then.  Also tried some other receivers, but found that it played fine with my Raspberry Pi.  Never did figure out why it wouldn't play with VLC.
   So today, I just tried with SMPLAYER, and that works fine.  Strange that VLC won't play it.  I even tried recording it, and playing back the recording, but it still wouldn't play.  There's probably some VLC setting that I could change, but it's easier to just use SMPLAYER.

These audio streams are regular mpeg audio, but they have a 263 Kbps bitrate, which is fairly high for mpeg.  Most of the mpeg audio I've seen has been around 167 Kbps.
  Two of the 3 channels show up in TSREADER as being "stereo", while the 3rd channel comes up as being "dual channel".  Not sure exactly what this implies.  SMPLAYER lets you select either the right or left channel, and it seems that on this dual channel feed (the channel 4 news channel), there is only audio on the left side. 


Today, I was looking for a sub-1000 SR to experiment with with my 6925 and 6983.  I remembered finding a 740 SR signal, so after searching the forum, I found about a half dozen different threads discussing the G-16 3745 H 740 transponder, which is Minnesota Public Radio.  These threads reminded me that although I could lock the transponder fine, and could see that there was audio there via the TSREADER audio thumbprints,  I couldn't play the audio with VLC.  In the above thread, I had mentioned that I had got it to play with the RPi/omxplayer and also SMPLAYER. 
    Today, I found that PotPlayer would play the audio fine also, but as before VLC would NOT play the audio.  Once again, I tried dozens of different settings in VLC, but couldn't get it to play.  I think this is really strange that VLC won't play the audio. 
    While experimenting though, I also found that SmartDVB wouldn't play the audio either, so it's not just VLC.

  Anyway, just wondering if anyone has ever gotten these channels to play with VLC or SmartDVB, and if so, how?


majortom

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Reply with quote  #7 
Maybe it's due to the slow bit rate not filling up due to some setting??
It also might be configured strange in a way that vlc doesn't like it?
I was able to get a couple of them to play with 'mpv', program 3,4, 5
Others didn't seem to have any data currently.
Attached snippet from console.

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: Screenshot_at_2016-08-28_22-49-40.png, Views: 28, Size: 115.31 KB 

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wejones

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
Maybe it's due to the slow bit rate not filling up due to some setting??
It also might be configured strange in a way that vlc doesn't like it?
I was able to get a couple of them to play with 'mpv', program 3,4, 5
Others didn't seem to have any data currently.
Attached snippet from console.


According to both MPC and TSREADER, the bitrate isn't that slow, ie:

Audio: MPEG Audio 44100Hz stereo 256kbps [A: mp2, 44100 Hz, stereo, 256 kb/s]

for each of the 3 channels that are normally streaming.
MPC-HC does play the channels BTW, however it takes about 1 to 2 minutes before the playing actually starts.  Potplayer takes a long time to start up too, but not quite as long.  But the delays do make it seem to be related to something like you say, ie filling up some default buffer or something.  i thought it might be the streaming buffer in TSREADER, so I reduced that to 1 MB, but it still takes about 80 sec to start up.  I've let VLC run for 10-20 minutes, and it just never starts up.
   Actually, I get long delays with MCP and PotPlayer even playing normal video, so the delays I'm seeing may have nothing to do with these particular audio channels, however that's the main reason that I'm so wishing that I could get VLC to work, because with regular video, VLC starts up immediately, without any of these annoying delays, but these channels just don't work with VLC for some reason.
  If I look at the VLC media statistics, it says that it's "demuxing" the stream, but says that there are zero blocks decoded, zero buffers played, zero buffers lost, zero packets sent. 
  
   Anyway, there are several programs that will play these channels, but it's just strange that VLC won't work.



majortom

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Reply with quote  #9 
I think VLC expects things to be in reasonable order standards wise,
so that's why I mentioned that it might be something to do with the configuration
of the mux. The reason I mention the slow bitrate is that in comparison to VIDEO,
audio only is nothing bitrate wise. So if there is a cache configuration set to say like 8 MB (Bytes, not bits) or so,
it will take forever to fill that up before playing in a program like mplayer or mpv.

I forgot to mention, when your testing, to play it from vlc via the command line, with this option set.
you will get a more verbose output in the terminal which might help ya to pin it down.

  -v, --verbose <integer [-2147483648 .. 2147483647]>
                                 This is the verbosity level (0=only errors and
                                 standard messages, 1=warnings, 2=debug)

command I ran:
 ~/$ cvlc http://perseus:1230 --verbose=2
VLC media player 3.0.0-git Vetinari (revision e7a43e4)

When I did that yesterday, it was complaining about duplicate PMT PIDs in the PAT.
I am running the latest git development version, compiled locally yesterday.
Might be interesting to confirm you see the same.

Snippet from mine at the point it got hung up.
Code:
[00007f6840003148] lua demux meta debug: Trying Lua scripts in /usr/local/share/vlc/lua/meta/reader
[00007f6840003148] core demux meta debug: no meta reader modules matched
[00007f68440009d8] core input debug: `http://perseus:1230' successfully opened
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: pid[4101] unknown
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: pid[256] unknown
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: PATCallBack called
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux warning: PAT check failed: duplicate program pid 128
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: pid[128] unknown
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: pid[17] unknown
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux error: libdvbpsi error (PSI decoder): TS discontinuity (received 2, expected 0) for PID 0
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: PATCallBack called
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux warning: PAT check failed: duplicate program pid 128
[00007f6840002da8] ts demux debug: pid[20] unknown

I am reasonably certain, if whoever runs / uplinks that mux configured the mux to follow DVB standard more closely,
VLC would play it without issue. But apparently the equipment they use at the intended destination doesn't care.
See attached PID tree output from updateDVB, showing the flakey mux configuration.

 
Attached Files
txt 3745_h_740.txt (4.98 KB, 14 views)


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wejones

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Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks.  I was kind of interested in the line in your "snippet" thay said:
"duplicate program pid 128"

This may have nothing to do with the current problem, however this reminded me of years ago back when Nebraska had a mux of PBS channels on sat.  There was a period of about a year when that mux was mis-configured.  It drove TSREADER crazy in that in the panel at the left where they show the tree of PAT/PMTs/SDTs, etc, it would either be flashing off/on, re-loading the tree, or you'd get the tree with multiple branches of the same channels.   I finally noticed that the mux had a bunch of continuity errors, all of which were in the PMTs.  So I fed a recording of the PMT PIDs into that DVB-Snoop program, and it made it clear
that the continuity errors were not caused by missing some packets, but were caused because they had two sets of PMT pids, each with complete correct continuity counters so that you could follow the packets of each, and all packets were there, but since the packets from the two PMT streams, when a packet from the duplicate stream followed a packet from the other stream, the continuity would appear to be off.  Also the channel lineup was slightly different in the two streams, so it entered different info over in the left panel. I think they had made some changes to the PMT PID, and forgot to remove the old version or something.  They eventually fixed this problem, but it took them a long time. 

  Anyway, that's not the problem now, because there aren't any continuity errors in that 128 PMT PID, but it does show that duplicate PIDs can really confuse some programs.  It also makes me wonder what your program means when it reports detecting duplicate PID 128.  It seems like if there really duplicates, that there would have to be continuity errors, unless they just happened to be timed in a way that the counters happened to line up correctly somehow. 

It does seem like whatever is wrong with mux that it doesn't affect their equipment, and doesn't affect most of the playing programs, but it sure seems to mess up VLC.
TheSatBible

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Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wejones
   So today, I just tried with SMPLAYER, and that works fine.  


works fine for me, too on the MPR signal and another one in the arc that also has been driving me nuts that it wouldn't play!  SMPLAYER now opens up a whole world of those audio signals that TSREADER and VLC seem to fail to play, mostly those that seem to only have the audio stream defined but no PCR in each PRG.



snowman

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Reply with quote  #12 
Did these move? Im unable to get them now and satsignature appears to show them gone if I center the plot on both colorado pr and minnesota pr feeds reported on lyngsat. Thanks
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