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boblop

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Reply with quote  #1 
Any one may post any thing about any subject in my threads.

I would offer up the thought that when trying to set up a polar mounted sat dish the rules are simple and need be followed some what closely. A dish is a focusing device and as such "must" be pointed in the direction of the source signal. When a sat meter is connected to an lnb / lnbf mounted in a focusing device it then becomes a form of a compass. That is the output tells one where the sat dish is then pointing and the resulting  signal strenght. With a polar mount start with the mount set to its zenith or rather its highest point of aim. Then point the mount / dish at ones true south sat position. All rather simple to do and understand. These sats are in orbit over the equator of planet earth and "are where they are" meaning their compass bearing numbers are such as they are assigned. Mostly magnetic deflection is a function of distortion found near the planets surface. We are aiming  our focusing dish antenna "up" at the Clark Belt not using it to find our way along a path at ground level. In the end the present sats are just about 2 degrees apart in spacing. (never mind a tenth of a degree error here and there) If "your compass" is off more than 1 degree you are starting to look at the wrong sat position. There are whole web sites which contain complete write ups on setting up a sat dish. It is not possible  to repeat and repeat the whole text here every time some one refuses to just go and read up on this subject. I have a quality sailing compass but never use it for setting up a sat dish. If I was on open water I "could " use the compass or an electronic gps receiver to find my bearing. If you try to rewrite the rules for setting up a sat dish polar mount you will be out in the yard for a very long time.

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boblop

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Reply with quote  #2 
http://www.schoolofsailing.net/true-and-magnetic.html

I just noticed the method to remember this info found near the end of this article. We need such to help with sat dish alignment. (TVMDC,AW)

In the end if one wishes to find a sat signal they need to align or "point" their focusing device or sat dish at the desired sat position. The lines drawn in the picture represent the values we need to know in order to adjust three values to calibrate our polar dish mounts to track the Clark Belt from our back yards. (I leave my compass on the boat) I use the values gathered from the internet (LONG, LAT) and check them with my digital level at the dish mount to get my initial alignment very close. In the end it is the fine tuning at the mount positions which peak my found signal to its best values and strongest sat signal. (remember with a 2 degree error you are on a different sat position)

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Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #3 
Have a smart phone boblop?.Compass app is real nice.[smile]
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Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2, 12' Cosmos,8 1/2 foot Birdview in the works.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103,105...1.2 Ch Master on a factory Ch Master polar mount tracking from 58-127.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox and ASC1`s
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,Pansat 9500,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982.

boblop

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Reply with quote  #4 
My phone has wires and works through long power outages without issue. Never needs a software up date from my end of wire either. Never have a low battery.
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Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #5 
I have been in that cave before.There is a lake where the fish have no light and through time now have no eyes.[biggrin]
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Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2, 12' Cosmos,8 1/2 foot Birdview in the works.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103,105...1.2 Ch Master on a factory Ch Master polar mount tracking from 58-127.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox and ASC1`s
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,Pansat 9500,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982.

Jim

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Reply with quote  #6 
I have this app on a ipad http://www.dishpointer.com/2009/augmented-reality-satellite-finder/
Hockeynut

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thats one I have not installed on my iphone.Read about it but never got around to loading it.Is that the one that shows the clarke belt as you move the phone around?

Nice...Thanks Jim.Loaded the app now.[biggrin]

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Dish`s--10' KTI,10' Button Hook,10' Unimesh x2, 12' Cosmos,8 1/2 foot Birdview in the works.
1.2 Ch Masters parked at 91,103,105...1.2 Ch Master on a factory Ch Master polar mount tracking from 58-127.
Positioners--Gbox,Vbox and ASC1`s
Receivers--AZMe,AZPlus,AZElite,Icecrypt S1600 HD,Pansat 9500,VU Solo2 SE,Octagon SF4008 UHD 4K,Prof 7500,TBS 6982.

Jim

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeynut
Thats one I have not installed on my iphone.Read about it but never got around to loading it.Is that the one that shows the clarke belt as you move the phone around?


I used it on my last dish install as I wanted to make sure my line of site was ok because where I'm at there are a lot of trees. It worked sweet. You can lock in your longitude and latitude as you move your phone or ipad. It saved me a lot of guessing.
boblop

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Reply with quote  #9 
"fish which have no eyes" Sort of "evolving" into blind from lack of any light so no need to have eyes. I wonder if people are exposed to "not needing a brain" if over time we will stop having any brains? Some would argue this has already happened. Self driving cars are here. Hello google, what was my IQ last year? Voice commands because after getting remote controls so we no longer have to leave our chair and cross the room to change the channel on the tv set now folks want voice commands because pushing those little buttons is "just too much work" and one needs to be "smart" to figure out how to do so.

If a smart phone with a $5 add on can be  turned into a spectrum analyzer which cover 1000hz up to 4 ghz I may want to get one. When people took a wire less device which could send both voice and video signals and they turned it into a one finger telegraph device which only sends text like a telegraph I conclude we have lost much our brains.

I contend that a smart phone is "only smart" if it can connect up to  some other source of input. Where my spectrum analyzer or my digital level are independent of needing any thing else coming in from some where else when setting up a sat dish. I cheated and used a little pocket calculator when  doing my state and federal income taxes again this year. (I had to use the internet to get the tax forms and directions) However I can still do math with just my "on board" brain. Like the fish we may go brain blind in a few more years.

 

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habs

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Reply with quote  #10 
Not sure if that's a tirade against automation specifically or technology in general but most consider the delegation of what have become menial tasks as progress.

Everyone here still has the option to get off the "wheel" and potentially die around age 40.

If you are arguing about "then vs now" quality of life, well that's a much more interesting conversation.
Captain_Kurtz

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Reply with quote  #11 
"Driverless cars" will mark the end of civilization.

Stupidest idea since New Coke.
boblop

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Reply with quote  #12 
I am reminded here of a now old movie--? Total Recall? perhaps which has "the terminator" in a driver less car. Any way all this sudden change in electronics in general has made many older mostly machines with metal gears and such which have followed steam powered devices which followed horse powered carts which followed men in sail boats with--wait for it a compass. And they still got lost and "find" new lands which years later then got electricity and of course sat dishes to play around with.

I am one who has been slow to  throw out my compass and get a GPS unit. I picked up for near free an early model GPS and so far have never powered it up. I still remember enough land marks viewed through the windshield to get "there and back" so far. But a better sat meter is something most all of you could use. (and we all know where you should buy it from)

Are we better off with steam  power and just a compass? Think of a trip to Mars, a modern day travel much like a sail across the pond 500 years ago. A long journey and one or two of your ship mates may get served for lunch when the food supplies run low. With a sail across an ocean there was a good chance you could meet "new people" and fall in love and live in a foreign land for the rest of your life. While with a trip  to Mars the odds get less and less as you travel on.

I believe that many of "us" here were thrown off the "wheel" early in life thus we play around with sat dishes in our back yards. So are we better off now with sat tv? It is a great hobby. If it was still 500 years ago we would  only have a compass to  play with and nothing but lightning strikes for electricity. If you time travel back 500 year with your cell  phone or GPS device, well who you gonna call?  A compass can still find the ends of the earth.

A driver less car and figure 8 dirt track racing, I see a common goal there. (live to drive on another day)

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andyinyakima

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Reply with quote  #13 
Neither, compass or GPS.

Made a trip from Maine to Alaska back in 72. Didn't use compass and didn't have GPS.

Just good up to date  detailed maps and enough cash to make it! In fact the Canadian border won't let you cross unless you had
plenty of money to buy gas.

Now to find a satellite I like the high noon sun approach to find south.

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boblop

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Reply with quote  #14 
Indeed sun dial, so no batteries are needed. When you think about it, an unused polar dish mount just looks like it could be turned into a sun dial. Mount this dish mount  on the hood of your car and park in the sun some place. Then read out the shadow line to  know which way it is to get back home. Better than bread crumbs out an open window. I would think just a dish with a button hook could be laying in your yard and thus point out  which way it is to ones most southern sat position at high noon.

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wejones

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Reply with quote  #15 
There are some good and bad features with respect to the use of sun dials to determine true south. The good is that the sundial gives an estimate of true local noon rather than what I would call "civil" noon.  Ie civil time is divided into time zones that are about 1000 miles wide, meaning that while local noon is different for each longitude within that zone, civil time is declared to be the same, not to mention daylight time, meaning that civil noon could be up to 90 minutes off true local noon.  So a sun dial is more useful than your clock for determining true south.
   However the sun dial has a few problems.  First of all, to function properly, they have to be aligned to true south, so in other words, you have to know where true south is in order to determine true south.
   Another problem is that sundials are not accurate unless adjusted via the so called "equation of time" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_time ).  Ie a sundial's time can be about 15 or 16 minutes slow or fast, depending upon what day of the year it is.  There are fancy sundials out there that take the equation of time into account.  I saw one of them at the campus of the US Naval Academy in Md, and it is a beautiful instrument that I didn't have a clue re how to use.

   But what I do is go to
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php
and enter your state and town or your exact lat/lon, and it will tell you the Az/El of the sun for any day of the year.  Your true local noon is when the azimuth is 180 deg on the table created by the web page.  For example, for my location, true local noon is at 12:44 EDT.
    You can also use this web page to find the azimuth for any satellite that you've calculated the Az/El for.  I use this for finding out which trees are blocking what sats during the sun outage periods.
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Fellow Members, your posts are welcome here! Do not worry about posting everything perfect. Different receivers and LNB's will give you different Frequencies and Symbol Rates. Some set top boxes, PCI cards and USB receivers, Do Not Require all of the same information that others may need. It is not Required to post everything that others may need to tune in a feed. It is just most important to share the find. We can always adjust the Frequency and Symbol Rates and try the various Modulations and FEC's on our own receivers until we get a lock and then give a polite reply with what works for your receiver, as that information might help others as well. We all appreciate the efforts and energy of the Posters!

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