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RickCaylor

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Hello,

I was informed today that Serge (pwrsurge) from Dr. Sat or also known as AZ Box Canada is making a claim that the AZ Box Premium Pluses that I am selling are clones. He is 100% Wrong.

At Satellite Guys forum he has stated that the picture below on the Left with the 3 Rows of Vents are Clone Receivers and that the picture below on the Right are the real AZ Box Premium Plus units.



I have purchased over 400 Premium Plus Receivers from Opensat that were manufactured prior to 2012 and still have several cases of them and I also have a Master Serial Number list, as does DTInnovations and Opensat when they were still in business, to prove that these are REAL AZ Box receivers and they all have the 3 rows of vents as pictured above on the Left and these are NOT Clones.

Of all of these receivers that I have sold, none of them have experienced Over Heating of the Tuner Cards. They have had very little problems at all, besides the External Power Supplies, which we have upgraded before selling the units.

Those of you that do business with me, know that I do not sell Clones or promote the Selling of Clones.

I also sell these receivers to other Dealers in the US, Canada and South America. I also have a list of all of the Serial Numbers of the units that I have sold to other Dealers and can verify with their customers that they are indeed the Real Deal.

I was also told that Serge purchased a receiver from a Dealer that buys from me and he made a claim that the unit he purchased was a clone. A picture of the unit with the Serial number was sent to DTInnovations and I verified with them that it was not a clone and we were able to match the Serial number to prove this.

These Premium Pluses are Excellent Receivers and I have sold several hundred of them to many very satisfied customers and I will continue to do so.

I am in total agreement about making it public knowledge if any one is Selling Clones and pointing out what the differences are, so the buyer can be sure he is getting the Real Product that they have paid for. I encourage Serge, as I do myself to try and expose anyone who can be proven to be selling clone receivers. But in this case, Serge is incorrect about his claim that by the pictures he has posted proves that the unit is a clone.

I have also passed all of this information to my attorney.

Sincerely and with Respect to all of my Customers,

Rick Caylor
Ricks Satellite


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matrix74

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Reply with quote  #2 
He posted the above information at Legit also.
Chris

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Reply with quote  #3 
I don't know much about the specifics of cloning something but it seems to me that if someone were trying to pass off an object as an exact duplicate without being detected that they would have the basic common sense to at the very least keep the outward appearance the same. Something as simple as a stamped piece of tin can't be that difficult to duplicate. These guys have the skill to duplicate an electronic device down to the software so i am sure they can make a stamped metal cover either that or they think that the general public is that naive. It is also possible that the fact that the original units have switched design, the clone units have also, so there indeed may be clone units with the new vent design. A simple test would be to load the unit with a clone killer software and see what transpires.
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #4 
From another site , the az person/distributer said that they were going to have clone kill in the next few FW releases. I was very adamant that that was wrong. I do not have az prem +, but those that don't deal with rick or other reputable dealers , ie someone new to the fta world shouldn't spend good money to have a box killed, especially when some manufacturers or their distributers can't tell what is a clone or not. Legal action against those that do sell them is the best policy by far and I applaud Rick for his job in doing this. I know when I first got into FTA, I searched sites and got the best deal I could on a S10. I had no idea about clones or even rick's site, I was just trying to get started in a hobby. I know better now, but many people new to the hobby don't. I think the clone kill is a lazy person's way of fixing things , and have yet to see when it was used that legit boxes didn't get banged.
 people that do the clone kill, need to have a car clone kill sent at them. Any non factory part on their car would be triggered to fail and shut the car off. I think it would stop then. the money spent to buy these boxes was raised from hard work, scraping together, and saving up...that should not be taken lightly.

 My 2 cents, sorry if it offended anyone.


the best comment I heard was on the other site as well:

paraphasing " if they spent more time on making their firmware right instead of inventing clone kill their product would be better for everyone. " In other words these boxes still have FW issues and they are spending time putting clone kill in instead of making their boxes what we want them to be.

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RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #5 
I don't expect to see any Clone Killer Software from the real AZ Box company (azbox.com), as they now have new owners and they do not have any support from the Sigma Chip set that is in the early model of the AZ Boxes.  This is not to say that a 3rd party software might be made to work that way, but I have my doubts if that can be done.

The new AZ Box owners recently told me that they do not have any inventory, but have plans to produce the AZ Box Me and the Mini Me in the future.

I was also told that Opensat and DTInnovations, no longer have anything to do with the AZ Box brand name.

So while we still don't know where it will all end, I am glad that I was able to purchase a lot of Proven Quality products from Opensat when they were in control of the AZ Box brand name and am hopeful that the new AZ Box owners can and will continue in the same direction.

Thanks,

Rick

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madmadworld

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Reply with quote  #6 
this was sent to rick in a email too
this clone stuff... i never thought much about it at all till yesterday.
knew that the asia folks had made them but that's about it seen them online.
but they were very obvious with many vents in the tops and no place for the hd on the top.(good idea more vents?)  
but then yesterday noted the picture on your sale site is of a clone bet you have not noted this ?
 seen it many times but never really looked at it. 
so have you talked about this with opensat ? have they made 2 different tops for these plus's ?
try too clear this up for everyone...please.
thanks
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #7 
direct quote  (Interesting he mention ed you Rick)

Please note that we are currently analysing AzBox counterfeit products sold by unauthorised retailers in collaboration with OpenSat Lda. and all subsequent firmware releases will include code in order to permanently disable these devices. Also, our newest AzBox products such as the AzBox miniMe are manufactured with a proprietary security dongle installed inside the unit which makes it impossible to counterfeit.

In order to avoid purchasing a counterfeit AzBox unit, we strongly recommend only purchasing AzBox products from authorised AzBox Canada dealers which are listed on our website at http://dealers.azbox.ca or from Rick's Satellite who is authorised for the U.S. market.

AzBox Canada remains committed in protecting the AzBox brand in the Canadian market by taking several measures up to and including legal action in collaboration with OpenSat Lda. against unauthorised usage of its AzBox trademark and preventing the sale of counterfeit units in the Canadian marketplace.

If you accidentally purchased an AzBox product from any unauthorised retailer listed above, please contact us and we will assist you in going after the unauthorised seller to try and get your money back! 


Best regards,


PwrSurge
AzBox Canada
Last edited by pwrsurge; 02-08-2013 at 02:57 PMReason: Removed live links


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3 Edison OS mini's, 3 Openbox S10s, 2 Openbox S9's, NFusion HD, 2 Prof 7500's, Genpix Skywalker 1, 2 Optibox Anacondas, Azbox me, Azbox minime, 2 Jynxboxes, ismart m100, izzibox, TBS 6982, Vigica C60s, Optibox Raptor, azbox Bravissimo, TBS 5922SE, TBS 5980 (Broke), and TBS 6902.
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RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmadworld
this was sent to rick in a email too
this clone stuff... i never thought much about it at all till yesterday.
knew that the asia folks had made them but that's about it seen them online.
but they were very obvious with many vents in the tops and no place for the hd on the top.(good idea more vents?)
but then yesterday noted the picture on your sale site is of a clone bet you have not noted this ?
so have you talked about this with opensat ? have they made 2 different tops for these plus's ?
try too clear this up for everyone...please.
thanks


madmadworld,

I thought that the picture on my website of the Premium Plus was one that was provided to me from Opensat quite some time back.  But you are right about there not being the removable panel to insert the hard drive.  I do appreciate you pointing that out to me.  I will change it.

I do like the idea of more vents though, but these units have never had an overheating problem and the power supply is external which helps as well.

I cannot talk to anyone at Opensat any more.  I have tried several times, but since they no longer have any thing to do with the brand name, the only communication that I have had, has been with my main sales rep that left Opensat and went to work for DTInnovations and now they have also left that company.

Now I have been told that neither Opensat or DTInnovations has anything to do with the AZ Box brand name by that same person.

When Opensat was in charge of the labeling and selling the the AZ Box products, they did have at least 2 different receiver tops.  As I have sold both of them and I purchased them from Opensat, but payments were always sent to DTInnovations.

I had some from 2010 that had the two rows of cooling vents and then my largest order that I made with them in 2011, had most of them with the 3 rows of vents.

Thanks,

Rick

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RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #9 
mountaineer,

I am puzzled as well about the things being said. 

I was told by Opensat that Serge was told that he could be the Canadian Distributor, but I was also told that there were never any signed contracts.  It was the same for me with Opensat.  We had maintained good relations for a few years before I was told I could be the US Distributor, but we never signed any contracts either, but we maintained a good productive relationship.  So I know that both Serge and I were buying from Opensat.

What I can say for sure, is that the Premium Pluses that I sell, came from Opensat in Portugal (I paid to have them shipped here and paid the Customs fees) and they have been some of the best darn units I have ever used or sold.  Very little problems and can do a lot for a really good price.  I also know that some have had the 2 rows of vents and others have the 3 rows of vents.

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RickCaylor

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmadworld

but then yesterday noted the picture on your sale site is of a clone bet you have not noted this ?


Just found the Zip file with all of the photos and the picture I have on my website was one that was provided to me from Opensat, that included the Me and the Mini Me. They sent it to me on May 20th, 2011. 

I can't say that it is a picture of a clone, but it is different from the units that I have.  Many more vents and no hard drive plate.

Can't ask them about it now though, so will just get out the digital camera and a new receiver and take a new picture.

Thanks,

Rick

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Wildcat555

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Reply with quote  #11 
I just looked at my Premium +, It has 3 rows of Vents, I bought from Rick, I have had no trouble with it at all.Guess I had it for 2 years or over.
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madmadworld

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCaylor
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmadworld

but then yesterday noted the picture on your sale site is of a clone bet you have not noted this ?


Just found the Zip file with all of the photos and the picture I have on my website was one that was provided to me from Opensat, that included the Me and the Mini Me. They sent it to me on May 20th, 2011. 

I can't say that it is a picture of a clone, but it is different from the units that I have.  Many more vents and no hard drive plate.

Can't ask them about it now though, so will just get out the digital camera and a new receiver and take a new picture.

Thanks,

Rick

thanks rick for always being so open and honest as always with us.
would never buy a new AZ from anyone else.
but that just adds to the confusion for us end users and you.  they sent you that picture that i and most of us would think dang THAT'S a clone for sure,as it looks like the ones on the Asia sites. so there are more than 2 tops for these Plus's i guess ?
here's hope the new owners on the AZ brand will be as good as the older units.
Chris

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountaineer
From another site , the az person/distributer said that they were going to have clone kill in the next few FW releases. I was very adamant that that was wrong. I do not have az prem +, but those that don't deal with rick or other reputable dealers , ie someone new to the fta world shouldn't spend good money to have a box killed, especially when some manufacturers or their distributers can't tell what is a clone or not. Legal action against those that do sell them is the best policy by far and I applaud Rick for his job in doing this. I know when I first got into FTA, I searched sites and got the best deal I could on a S10. I had no idea about clones or even rick's site, I was just trying to get started in a hobby. I know better now, but many people new to the hobby don't. I think the clone kill is a lazy person's way of fixing things , and have yet to see when it was used that legit boxes didn't get banged.
 people that do the clone kill, need to have a car clone kill sent at them. Any non factory part on their car would be triggered to fail and shut the car off. I think it would stop then. the money spent to buy these boxes was raised from hard work, scraping together, and saving up...that should not be taken lightly.

 My 2 cents, sorry if it offended anyone.


the best comment I heard was on the other site as well:

paraphasing " if they spent more time on making their firmware right instead of inventing clone kill their product would be better for everyone. " In other words these boxes still have FW issues and they are spending time putting clone kill in instead of making their boxes what we want them to be.


If your comments are directed at me no offense taken at all.  I seem to have struck a nerve with the mention of a clone killer. My statement was made simply as a quick and effective way to prove that the 3 vent units were not all clones. I am not condoning the use of this type of software as in the end I believe it hurts the company more then helping it.

Now as far as your comment on non factory parts being considered clones I believe you are off track. A non factory part is not a clone of the OE manufactures brand and is not sold as such. In most cases the non factory part has been researched and made better with notable improvements and even used by used by the original manufacturer as a better substitute to correct known issues or failures with their parts. Without the research of non factory aftermarket manufactures many cars would be dead in the water after a few years of use. Examples include Felpro head gaskets and Moog chassis parts with a lot of the R&D coming from NASCAR.

Now if you are referring to non factory parts as overseas knockoffs actually boxed and sold as ACDelco and Motorcraft etc then you don't have to worry about a clone kill because the part will kill itself. the failure rates on these parts is extremely high.
mountaineer

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Reply with quote  #14 
No Chris,
Actually I didn't see your comment until after I posted. Nothing meant at you at all. I was reposting in essence what I said to powerserge on the other site. Nothing meant your way at all. In fact what lead to my comment was someone else with more knowledge than me said that "some of the 'clones' were possibly factory overruns and sold elsewhere". It was also pointed out that it was hard for a normal customer that had bought one in the last few months to tell by holes in the top. especially when the info just came out and is in dispute as it is. Honestly has anybody ever got a box and then immediately counted the vent holes or or looked at the power switch to see if it had on and off markings...(also supposed clone ID, real ones only has off no on marking).So no Chris hope there was no hard feelings. I just feel bad for Rick, and the others that innocently bought there boxes and could get it killed by gasp updating the firmware. Not stealing signals or reconfiguring the equipment to do illegal things. What will be worst...and if they issue t clone kill it WILL happen...is that a legitimate box owner will have their box dead. 
 It is expost facto  and wrong. IMHO

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EmilNJ

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Reply with quote  #15 

If you bought an AZBOX from Rick's Satellite or from another dealer who in turn got it from him it is real for sure.  I got my Premium Plus from Rick and it was from 2010 and it has the two rows of vents.  Later production runs had the three rows of vents. 

Manufactures often make changes and improvements to their products that may not be noticeable if you don't look for them.  It could be something as simple as a power switch from the vendor supplying them or a main board revision ect.  This happens all the time for the company I work for as certain parts or pieces are improved or discontinued from our vender's and a replacement one will be used or retrofitted. 

As far as as clone killing firmware I wouldn't worry about that since as Rick said Opensat is no longer associated with the AZBOX brand since its under new ownership.  In fact the new ownership was in place when the selling of clones claim was made and much earlier.  So the statement that they were actually working with Opensat is simply not true and could of not have taken place.  


Remember this is the Internet and anyone can claim anything but when you inject the facts the truth comes out. 


Emil


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