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MGB80

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #1 

My 4DTV driven actuator has died somewhere around AMC9 @ 83 deg. I say somewhere because that is where it was going when it stopped moving. The 4DTV shows the position at which it stopped. It does not move even when disconnected from the DSR922 and connected to a separate positioner, a Prosat 210. I know that because I took a measurement of the actuator extension. Both the 922 and the Prosat are outputting 36vdc. Both show at the limits. I have a new Venture actuator on the way. Installing it is not the real issue. Installing it with the 922 showing the current position is the real issue. Back when, I would get the dish to G1 and do a Master Reset which set the position as 5000. But now, no maps are being downloaded to use as a start point.

 

One thought that I had was to use the Prosat positioner to drive the dish up to the position that I measured. Then, connect the 922. My thinking is that the physical position of the dish and the position as shown by the DSR922 would be the same. Then, it would just be a matter of fine tuning. The only question then might be the encoder counts, old versus new. I believe that the old is either 40 or 48 whereas the new is 32.

 

Of course, I could always just use the current position in the 922 as the starting point rather than 5000 for a sat low in the west, reset the limits, and go on from there. (I’m in Ohio.)

 

Appreciate your thoughts, before I screw things up royally.

 

Joe

wejones

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Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4,128
Reply with quote  #2 
This relates to another thread that I jumped into even though I've never owned or used a 4DTV. 
   I was suggesting that all the receivers I've owned have had a form of "re-sync" command to allow you to re-set the entire arc without going back through the initial setup or resorting to re-doing each sat one by one. 
    This post is making me wonder if the 922 does NOT have such a re-sync command??? Perhaps by another name???   I can't imagine any IRD not having that capability, but maybe not????

johbru

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 1,722
Reply with quote  #3 
This something I have done recently.  First the Venture may or may not have the same counts per rev.  I extended the new actuator so that the pin to pin distance was the same.  Install it then extend the actuator making sure the count is going the correct direction until it is out as far as you wish and set the limit switch.  Now comes the tedious part.  If this position is close to the old software limit, you may be able to go straight to each bird and tune it.  If not, which was my case, record each current position then compute the interval you find between W6 and W8.  Once this  is span is found the ratio of each bird should be the same as the span between W6 and W8 when you find each.  I also checked GB-18 and C3-7 analog first to check my figures.  Now set the soft limits on the Options 6-4-3 page and you can tune each bird.  Good Luck!

The 922 does not have a function, like my old Uniden SQ-560 to scan the Clarke Arc.  I would avoid using the "Adjust all Satellites" function.




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MGB80

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #4 
wejones,

No, the 4DTV receivers do not have a re-sync command. The closest that it comes is a Master Reset which resets everything. You then go to sat G1 and get a map of the sats. It sets sat G1 to a position number of 5000. The other sats must be found and are up or down from that position. Pain in the you know what. However, the maps are no longer available by download from G1. So it's best to try and work with the maps that you have.

There is another function called "Adjust All Satellites". Lets say that the arm slips a little in its clamp. (happened to me when the kid down the street hit my dish with the lawn mower.) Now the memorized position is off by a few counts. So, adjust dish position to fine tune one sat. Then use the "Adjust All Satellites" function to adjust the sat memories by that same count difference.

johbru,

Thanks. You have described essentially what I was thinking and listed in the 2nd paragraph of my post. In talking with Rick this AM, he suggested removing the motor from the old actuator and, using the 922, run the motor down to say G1. (This assumes that the arm is jammed but the motor is good.) However, assuming there is a count/in difference between old and new actuator, the old count locations will no longer be any good.

Joe
virginiap20007

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #5 
I had my motor quit, but fortunatly it was on w-4 {ses-1].   since the motor quit on the way to amc-9, the first thing to do is don't move the dish!!  When you get the new motor/actuator, use a 12v bat to extend [or retract to the same position as the one that quit.   take off the defective motor /actuator and install the new one.  The number count should be pretty close in the 922,but you may have to adjust the sat positions.  Check out my post on "off topic"  My set up was H to H drive system but the instructions will still apply.  Post or  email me if you need more help.      My motor died because of brush failure, and had to replace the brushes so I had the whole gear box system apart to get the motor off.  was a little tricky to get back together.  Had to make sure the gear that controled the limit switches were in the same position as when itook it apart.   Just make sure you move the new motor/actuator to the same legnth as the old one.
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9ft.button hook mesh HtoH mount; 4dtv922 C/KU feed horn w/ slaved AZ prem, looped pan 9500, and a Manhattan at the end.. Got a philips suround sound in there and SONY BRAVIA TV
wejones

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Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4,128
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB80
wejones,

No, the 4DTV receivers do not have a re-sync command. The closest that it comes is a Master Reset which resets everything. You then go to sat G1 and get a map of the sats. It sets sat G1 to a position number of 5000. The other sats must be found and are up or down from that position. Pain in the you know what. However, the maps are no longer available by download from G1. So it's best to try and work with the maps that you have.

There is another function called "Adjust All Satellites". Lets say that the arm slips a little in its clamp. (happened to me when the kid down the street hit my dish with the lawn mower.) Now the memorized position is off by a few counts. So, adjust dish position to fine tune one sat. Then use the "Adjust All Satellites" function to adjust the sat memories by that same count difference.

.......


 The adjust all satellites thing you describe is basically the same thing as the re-sync thing I'm talking about. 
  In your case of a bad actuator, if you have your sats set up already, assuming that you're replacing the actuator with the same model, or an actuator with the same counts per inch extension, then you should be able to drop in the new actuator, then, using that resync all sats command, manually move to the actual position of the sat the receiver thinks you're on, and it will apply that offset to all the sats, and you're all set.  However, since you are putting in a different brand actuator, it won't work if the counts per inch will likely be different, as you're suggesting (I hadn't noticed that comment before I brought up re-syncing).  
virginiap20007

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #7 
mgb8o; DO NOT DO A MASTER RE-SET!!! , you loose all your info!  Thought I'd better add this to the above post but couldn't figure out how. Good luck on the change-out. Keep us posted!
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9ft.button hook mesh HtoH mount; 4dtv922 C/KU feed horn w/ slaved AZ prem, looped pan 9500, and a Manhattan at the end.. Got a philips suround sound in there and SONY BRAVIA TV
ind224

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Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1,367
Reply with quote  #8 
Have you checked the motor winding (continuity) right at the motor to rule out the wire? 

        
MGB80

Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 68
Reply with quote  #9 
If you mean the actual motor windings, no.

If you mean the line from the receiver to the motor, yes. OK.

Joe
virginiap20007

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #10 

These motors are DC so there are no windings, just an armature with brushes that ride on the comutator.  Could be the brushes are worn down and came out of the brush holder like mine.  You did say you have a new mover on the way?  If you can fix this one then you'll have a spare.  I know its a pain not being able to scan the sky's but you should be up an running soon.  Jess


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9ft.button hook mesh HtoH mount; 4dtv922 C/KU feed horn w/ slaved AZ prem, looped pan 9500, and a Manhattan at the end.. Got a philips suround sound in there and SONY BRAVIA TV
ind224

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Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1,367
Reply with quote  #11 
I don't mean open the motor case; just check the two wires feeding the motor.
I have 1.1 ohms. You should be about the same. If you see open there is the problem and yes replacement is probably the best option. If it is a loose winding or solder joint tapping the motor housing while energized may allow you to at least return to G0.      
      
virginiap20007

Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 711
Reply with quote  #12 
Don't go to GO!  There is no help there for the 922.  If the 922 is re-set, the motor reading will be 5000 which is the middle of the dish mover travel and limits will have to be set and sats re-located, and you will LOOSE ALL THE INFO.  Please do not do a re-set!  Run the new arm to the same legnth as the old one, conect it to the dish and then conect all the wires from the 922 and you should be OK with the sat numbers.  Good luck on the change-out. Jess
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9ft.button hook mesh HtoH mount; 4dtv922 C/KU feed horn w/ slaved AZ prem, looped pan 9500, and a Manhattan at the end.. Got a philips suround sound in there and SONY BRAVIA TV
ind224

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Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1,367
Reply with quote  #13 
My going to G0 has nothing to do with mapping (now) and I certainly said nothing about a reset.  Going back to G0 puts HIS counter back to HIS known start point what ever that arbitrary number is (first post) and lets him adjust just the actuator not have to reprogram each sat in the receiver. The counter number could be any number when you install a new actuator.        
ind224

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Registered: 11/10/07
Posts: 1,367
Reply with quote  #14 
I did not mean G0 I meant G1 (what he said). I was thinking about the NPS CD.
rickp

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Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 650
Reply with quote  #15 
The 4dtv does have adjust all sats while you re-sync the current sat your on.
options 6-4-4  look and see  go back button  to save then you see adjust all sats at the very bottom.
wejones was right despite he dont have a 4dtv but he can read and retain whats said in another thread. go wejones go wejones.
benifit of my mistakes i would recommend not to use "Prosat positioner to drive the dish up to the position that I measured".  the new one will  come retracted  use the prosat to drive the dish to c4 at 134 channel 9 and 10 have analog qvc and hsn shopping. then hook up the 4dtv go in and reset limits options 6-4-3 drive the dish I DO EAST FIRST .   if you end up doing a reset limits are reset to 5000 for both at C4 you have enough room to get down to w8 before the limits are reached.. did you say what  venture arm length your  getting ?  did you try passing a magnet over the  old reed switch? think twice before you go unscrewing actuator to match the length you measured. things can get screwed up very easy.  put it in  a solid vice before applying voltage very strong device can get out of hand ... literally

I used to look for problems with the actuator when the 4dtv would only move one direction then reverse the heavy Gage wires and it will move the direction you were trying to go.  reset limit E or west  reverse wires like they were initially.  problems solved, but most of the times may take more than once reversing wires at the back of the receiver. After researching this problematic behavior i find the 4dtv is the problem and can be fixed by a ..70 part.

It is a Bi-directional Transient-Voltage-Suppression diode. As a quick test, cut one of the leads of CR104. The positioner will likely start to function again. There is no harm in temporarily testing your positioner with CR104 removed. 

next best possibility is the relays getting stuck , they can get stuck on the first use or the millionth. mechanical electric stuff  can fuse  so a greater punch of electricity can un-stick them also.

be safe first.
let us know how it works out for you
RickP



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